Comment from Stoccado
Time October 7, 2009 at 7:01 am

One down.

Comment from Ernie
Time October 7, 2009 at 1:18 pm

So Much for freedom of press, dont you liberals see a familiar pattern of disagree with goverment or Obama and your a racist . L.I.E.S. Liberals ignoring every source

Comment from Glen
Time October 7, 2009 at 1:24 pm

I don’t know. Why was she fired? Did other employees also object (to what is, after all, not a desireable cartoon…encouraging the assassination of the President of the United States)? Were they fired?

We need more facts.

Comment from Joan J
Time October 7, 2009 at 1:40 pm

Um… Isn’t the NY Post, owned by Rupert Murdoch since ca 1993, one of the conservative newspapers? As such, wouldn’t their firing of Ms. Guzman over the cartoon in question have been in line with editorial policy?

Comment from Moe
Time October 7, 2009 at 1:42 pm

Yes, I see the familiar pattern. A few years ago, those that questioned actions of the previous administration were called un-American, traitors, coddlers of terrorists…

Comment from Bull
Time October 7, 2009 at 1:47 pm

Now they’ll have to find someone else to edit the Post. Actually, it would have been a much better cartoon if the cops had been wearing sheets.

Comment from drhill
Time October 7, 2009 at 1:48 pm

how does this ape look like Obama? I would take it to mean (since Obama did not presumably write the bill) something more like ; we have a bunch of monkeys writing silly bills….including the stimulus bill…and we have monkeys in all political parties…maybe it’s just me…monkeys and politicians are quite interchangeable unfortunately.

Comment from Francis
Time October 7, 2009 at 1:50 pm

As the Russians are fond of saying, “Toughzhi Schitzki”.

Comment from Dave
Time October 7, 2009 at 1:55 pm

I believe Murdoch waited, what he thought, a reasonable amount of time. Then ended the in-paper insert “Tempo”. Thus, not needing Guzman any longer. It helps him avoid any guise of firing and editor who disagreed with his views as just that.
Ernie; I don’t understand your comment. The New York Post is a right-wing, Murdoch owned paper. Nothing liberal about it. The cartoon does have racist over-tones to it. I think you would find liberals look at many sources for their new. Not just the New York Post or Fox, as most neo-cons.

Comment from Guillermo Pineda
Time October 7, 2009 at 2:10 pm

It is evident that the world is less free than a couple decades ago. This is confirmed by the guys at freedomhouse.org

Why? It seems that political correctness is taking over the world and people are getting used to being hipocrit as the standard. Public officers should and are to be criticized, blamed or accused by their actions; this is a fundamental value of freedom of speech that needs to be protected. Even if a cartoon depicts a dead President, Ape or Dinosaur the cartoonist is free to share his views of how he feels about the world.

Comment from Glennis
Time October 7, 2009 at 2:10 pm

I saw it the same way as drhill. Why do people immediately assume there\’s some hidden meaning to everything?

Comment from ed stowe
Time October 7, 2009 at 2:18 pm

Let\’s not fool ourselves the ny post (lower case intentional) is a racist rag .The cartoon was in poor taste and it does in fact appeal to those who dislike the president based on race alone . The major problem is that the republican party does not denounce the crazy racist element of their party.(Those who claim that President Obama is neither American or Christian despite proof that he IS both!!) Those who calim he is a socialist dont even know what socialism is. Truth be told social security ,the post office the armed forces etc are in fact socialized programs. please people READ dont just accept what you hear .

Comment from Kitsune
Time October 7, 2009 at 2:18 pm

Where do people get the rabid ape=Obama from?

I thought this cartoon represented the “Monkeys with typewriters would eventually make the next great novel.” I forget who’s quote this is.

Then again, 99% of all symbolism goes right over my head. I just can’t see the connection.

Comment from mole
Time October 7, 2009 at 2:22 pm

Let\’s wait and get a few more facts. First, we don\’t know yet why she was fired. If it\’s because of the cartoon, then is it really a freedom of the press issue; maybe it\’s because she didn\’t follow some kind of protocol at the paper. Let\’s wait and find out. The cartoon was published - I wouldn\’t say that it shouldn\’t be; that\’s freedom of the press. On the other hand, the publisher also has a say in what is acceptable. If he or she deems a cartoon showing the assassination of the president to be unacceptable, then the publisher gets the call. Wasn\’t it viewed beforehand? We need some more facts.

Can\’t we have a reasonable discussion here without the likes of Ernie immediately setting it up as another problem that those despicable liberals? You can be certain that if it\’s a freedom of the press issue, those liberals who distress you so much will be here calling for the right to have it published, and for Guzman to be reinstated.

Comment from joe
Time October 7, 2009 at 2:32 pm

Doesn’t anyone remember the context of this cartoon. Does anyone remember the Chimp that ripped off the woman’s face and the police put it down? I’m sure the cartoonist was just commenting on the on the health care bill being put down in the same fashion. Context is everything

Comment from Marker
Time October 7, 2009 at 2:37 pm

I\\\\\\\’m with you, Kitsume. That\\\\\\\’s exactly the way I read it. Why would anybody but a racist equate an ape with Obama? The symbolism didn\\\\\\\’t go over your head, it went over theirs.

Comment from JimG
Time October 7, 2009 at 3:50 pm

Boy there are a lot of people in denial here today. It is an obviously racist cartoon. If you ever researched the editorial cartoons of the 19th century you would see a lot of similar if not identical portrayals of African Americans, although in those days the acceptable name for them began with the letter “N”. The first thing that came to my mind was “racial profiling” by trigger happy cops as in the BART shooting recently.

City cops don’t shoot monkeys, chimps, or gorillas. There is no context for this cartoon other than racism.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Comment from Jim
Time October 7, 2009 at 4:40 pm

That cartoon had nothing to do with Obama. At the time a deranged monkey had attacked a woman and seriously injured her and was shot dead by the police. Obama did not write the Stimulus Bill (he has never written any Bill that has been passed). He had Nancy Pelosi and her people write it, just like the Health Care fiascos being debated. People need to get a life. The cartoon was not comparing a biracial President to a monkey.

Comment from DHFabian
Time October 7, 2009 at 4:56 pm

When you first saw this cartoon, did you immediately interpret the dead monkey to symbolize President Obama? I, personally, didn\’t when I first saw it. I understood it to be a criticism of the stimulus plan, indicating that the stimulus plan was foolish enough to have been written by a monkey, and that the only way to deal with it was to shoot it dead. (The stimulus bill, despite the best propaganda that opponents could buy, is recognized as having a positive, if marginal, impact on the economy.)

Who knows, maybe the cartoon serves as a sort of truly American Rorschach test. If Obama is the first thing that came to mind when you saw the slaughtered monkey, it could tell you something about yourself — maybe you consider progressives to be as foolish as monkeys, or maybe it reflects your \"deep-down, in spite of yourself\" racial views. It\’s something worth discussing.

Comment from Richard Schloss
Time October 7, 2009 at 5:32 pm

I once tried to wrap a dead fish in the NY Post. The fish leaped out in disgust. The NY Post is the third-most worthless ultra-right-wing rag in the United States — the first two being, of course, the Washington Times and the Wall Street Journal.

Comment from Glen
Time October 7, 2009 at 5:32 pm

Identifying the monkey with Obama may be a function of age. Black Americans were frequently stereotyped as monkeys up through the 1930’s, and was continued in some parts of the country well into the 1960’s. However, with the cue of the stimulus package, the intent of the cartoonist is pretty clear. The dead monkey was meant to be Obama.

Comment from Bill TX
Time October 7, 2009 at 5:33 pm

Comment from Bill
Time October 7, 2009 at 5:11 pm

I’m not sure of the ins and outs of the decision to fire. However, I’m fairly confident in suggesting the following:
1. I acknowledge that George W Bush was portrayed as a chimp many times. However, the portrayal of President Obama as a chimp went over the line BECAUSE of the HISTORICAL application of “monkey” to black folks.
2. More importantly, the portrayal of a president as having been shot feeds the darkest desires of the Racially Extremist “Christian” Taliban.
3. Finally, the entire scenario is insulting to police officers everywhere, no matter how many unjustified and/or accidental killings may happen to occur.

Comment from Donna Barstow
Time October 7, 2009 at 5:38 pm

Well, same as what I said last time this cartoon was brought up: I still don’t think a dead ape has anything to do with Obama. I write about wildlife and do cartoons about them, and I don’t turn them into people. Ugh. Most editorial cartoonists could not have resisted putting a button or label on him saying Obama, anyway.

And I don’t think Ms. Guzman was fired over this. Talk about sleazy and third rate, the PuffPost is the WORST.

Comment from Gerry D.
Time October 7, 2009 at 5:42 pm

It would be most helpful were CAGLE to provide a link to go to “The statement from the paper\" explaining the reason why Sandra is no longer there,”

Comment from Generic
Time October 7, 2009 at 5:59 pm

Okay, I\’m confused.

I\’ll admit, I really never understood what all the disagreement about the original cartoon was about. To me, the first time I saw it, I thought of monkeys pounding on keyboards and generating gibberish, which, to me, pretty much explains all the stimulus bills to date. I understand that monkey=black in some people\’s minds, but that never seemed the point of the cartoon to me. Maybe my difficulty is that I never saw the monkey as equating Obama. Perhaps those that do need to re-evaluate their own thought processes?

Now, someone who criticized that cartoon months ago is let go, ostensibly because what that person was doing will no longer be necessary. According to some, this is actually due to this person considering the cartoon racist.

So the line folks are taking, as I can see it: Cartoon w/ monkey shot –> Cartoon is racist –> Editor calls cartoon racist –> Editor fired.

Um. I\’m not really seeing that such line makes sense.

The bottom line on this, as with so many things these days: Disagreement does not equal racism. A person losing there job does not equal retribution. Correlation is not causation.

Now, if someone finds some evidence this person was removed due to their political views, then yes, whoever caused that should be shamed. Until someone finds such evidence, all this vitriol is as useful as a fart in a hurricane. It may make you feel better, but it won\’t affect anything.

BTW, if you want to contact me about this comment, send to jlc at dalelands dot org

Comment from Packrat
Time October 7, 2009 at 8:42 pm

It looks like liberals thought the chimp was Obama and others thought it was congress. Who has the racilal view? HMMMM.

Where was all the outrage when Oliphant was drawing Condi Rice as a parrot with big lips?

Comment from JimG
Time October 7, 2009 at 10:24 pm

Packrat : “Where was all the outrage when Oliphant was drawing Condi Rice as a parrot with big lips?”

A: Because she wasn’t portrayed in a traditional racist stereotype image. No one is ever physically flattered by an editorial cartoon parody. She has big lips (unlike Obama) and a gap tooth, and that’s the tooth-I mean truth. And she acted like a parrot for the right wing agenda of Iraq lies written by the Bush Gang. If the shoe fits…put it on.

Now all the righties here are saying the Health Care Bill is Congress’, represented by the monkey (what a stretch!) to obfuscate the cartoon’s racist impact….funny how all the signs held by the Teabaggers and their boosters at FOX News like (Scum Hannity) call it Obamacare. Can’t have it both ways, you know. The truth is Congress is shaping the bill, not Obama, but tell that to the dumbed-down Teabaggers…who commonly use racist imagery. Check out their signs fer crissakes! Example: “Lynching” the President? Come on! Take off your blinders, folks.

Comment from Stoccado
Time October 8, 2009 at 6:21 am

Race - The copout of the age.

Comment from D.S.
Time October 8, 2009 at 8:12 am

Context is everything. If I remember right, this was published shortly after a chimp attacked someone and was shot by police officers on Feb 17.

No doubt the author & editors responsible for the cartoon were only thinking of that attack, and not how it would be interpreted outside of that context.

Now, it is only discussed outside of that context. As a cartoon it only makes sense in light of the attack. Without the attack, it’s just a lame cartoon with blatent racial overtones.

Comment from Rob
Time October 8, 2009 at 12:23 pm

A Perfect Record of Failure
The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775 - they’ve had 234 years to get it right; it is broke, and even though heavily subsidized, it can’t compete with private sector FedEx and UPS services.

Social Security was established in 1935 - they’ve had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - they’ve had 71 years to get it right; it is broke. Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - they’ve had 39 years to get it right; it is broke. Together Fannie and Freddie have now led the entire world into the worst economic collapse in 80 years.

The War on Poverty was started in 1964 - they’ve had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our hard earned money is confiscated each year and transferred to “the poor”; it hasn’t worked.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - they’ve had 44 years to get it right; they are both broke; and now our government dares to mention them as models for all US health care.

AMTRAK was established in 1970 - they’ve had 39 years to get it right; last year they bailed it out as it continues to run at a loss!

This year, a trillion dollars was committed in the massive political payoff called the Stimulus Bill of 2009; it shows NO sign of working; it’s been used to increase the size of governments across America, and raise government salaries while the rest of us suffer from economic hardships. It has yet to create a single new private sector job. Our national debt projections (approaching $10 trillion) have increased 400% in the last six months.

“Cash for Clunkers” was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009 - - after 80% of the cars purchased turned out to be produced by foreign companies, and dealers nationwide are buried under bureaucratic paperwork demanded by a government that is not yet paying them what was promised.

So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record that proves that each and every “service” shoved down our throats by an over-reaching government turns into disaster, how could any informed American trust our government to run or even set policies for America’s health care system - - 17% of our economy?

Maybe each of us has a personal responsibility to let others in on this brilliant record before 2010, and then help remove from office those who are voting to destroy capitalism and destroy our grandchildren’s future.

Comment from JimG
Time October 8, 2009 at 1:49 pm

“Social Security was established in 1935 - they’ve had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.”

It is in trouble not because it didn’t work-but because politicians have been stealing from it in more recent years to fund other things, which was never the intention. You can blame both sides of the aisle for that. We needed what Al Gore called a “lockbox” to keep their dirty hands off of it, and the general public allowed it to happen by not paying attention and doing something to stop the wholesale pillaging of our retirement funds by politicians who can’t manage a budget so steal from the poor and retired workers to fill in the gaps.

I agree government cannot be trusted. Citizens need to be vigilant. But the concept of Social Security was sound. Corruption ruined it and no one is to blame but ourselves for putting these sleazy politicians in office year after year while they stole our money and mismanaged the economy.

I don’t have time right now to rebut the other points. However, I for one have had zero problems with the Post Office. I am glad its there. It works for me. “Cannot compete with UPS and FedEx”? For what, sending a friggin’ letter? I still use it to send packages. Fed Ex and UPS caused me a lot of headaches on the job. When I had to depend on them for timely delivery of items for golf tournaments, a hard deadline, it was always touch and go. I had to track, track, track, boxes got left in the wrong places, the wrong people signed for them, we had to physically go and pick up things that were misplaced, I could go on and on. Stop drinking so much Kool-Aid, its bad for your sense of reality.

Comment from JimG
Time October 8, 2009 at 2:12 pm

D.S.- \"Context is everything. If I remember right, this was published shortly after a chimp attacked someone and was shot by police officers on Feb 17.\"

Yeah context is everything alright. Like the unarmed, subdued black kid that got shot to death in the back while laying handcuffed on the platform of a BART station by a cop on January 1 2009. That cop is now up for murder charges. That got a hell of a lot more coverage than that deranged monkey incident which I for one never heard about.

Context is everything, alright.

Comment from Diogenes-in-OR
Time October 9, 2009 at 1:25 am

Rob needs a civics lesson, and a history lesson, and an economics lesson, and a comparative health care delivery systems lesson, and most probably would benefit from none of it. He sounds like the typical Far Right anti-government sourpuss who sees every issue through blinders of bitterness. Sounds like a true Reaganite. His broad, sweeping - and mostly inaccurate - statements require nuanced, in-depth responses that would proably be beyond his ability to process. Therefore, why go to the time and effort to refute and rebut when it would all be wasted anyway.

Comment from Carl, patriotic American
Time October 9, 2009 at 7:50 am

Rob (and Cal and all the other racist teabaggers who shout their denials as to being such) keep this list tape to their computers. Like those in the past administration, they think repeating something often enough will make it true.
1. The Post Office does compete well in delivering packages and is certainly more reliable. I have had both FedEx and UPS leave notes at my house to drive miles away to pick up a package. The post office has a location in my little town and delivers letters to my house everyday. I doubt either of the other 2 could maintain their business model if they had to go to every house every day and have a location in every district they serve.
2. Social Security - JimG addressed this sufficiently. I would only add that it is a very effective socialistic way to provide a modest income to the elderly and disabled. It only serves well those who also have retirement plans and can count on Medicare/Medicaid.
3. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac worked fine as psuedo public/private entities until they were no longer regulated sufficiently and were allowed to participate in the fraudulent practices that brought about the recent collapse in our economy. They cleary need to be more tightly regulated.
4. The war on poverty has not been a complete disaster. If that were true the measure of poverty would be akin to what we see in 3rd world nations, not what we see in other industrialized nations. The U.S. is significantly behind many European nations in services to the poor.
5.Medicare and Medicaid don\’t work? So why are the teabaggers yelling, \"Keep your socialist hands off my Medicare!\" A public option in one of the proposals before Congress would not eliminate either, but would supplement both by providing low cost insurance to those the insurance companies refuse to cover. All of the above are certainly less expensive than using the emergency room as a health care provider.
6. The Bush administration put a trillion dollars into bailing out the financial industry and then the Obama administration committed a trillion for the stimulus bill. All of the Obama trillion has not been spent and some may never be spent. Some of it was invested and will earn at least a partial return. Some of it is going for infrastructure improvements. All of it was less wasted than the simple Bush give away to the financial industry.
7. Cash for clunkers. While I agree that it was not terribly worthwhile effort it did get some auto workers back to work at least for the near future. \"80%… produced by foreign companies\". Both of my Toyotas were produced here as were the new tires by an asian company located in Virginia. I have had no trouble with either, but am constantly having to have my F150 worked on. It is going to cost me $160 for a window motor plus labor later today.
8.Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, the armed services of the U.S. are all examples of socialism in action and all an appropriate roll for the federal government. Amtrack and additional light rail service are equally appropriate. Most of the United States is as bad as most 3rd world nations when it comes to public transportation. Much more money should be spent providing mass transit, especially in the Amtrack corrider between Boston and Washington.

Comment from Stoccado
Time October 9, 2009 at 10:35 am

Hot dog! You\’ve proved that the cartoon was racist.

Comment from sunita
Time October 9, 2009 at 1:08 pm

Carl, Patriotic America,

Check this out. Hope it helps cut the blind folds of European success and its welfare induced socialist cataract.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....laims.html

Comment from sunita
Time October 9, 2009 at 1:08 pm

I meant American.

Comment from sunita
Time October 9, 2009 at 1:12 pm

Hope you mean, when you say, you are a Patriotic American.
If that is the case, then please join hands to turn away from lazy socialism and help work towards, making America the No. 1 country in the world.
Else your claim to being Patriotic is just that. A Claim. Nothing more than that.
As I once read somewhere,
There is no greater joy than soaring high on the wings of your dreams, except maybe the joy of watching a dreamer who has nowhere to land but in the ocean of reality.
Hope you land not in the ocean, but on soft ground to stand up again and accept reality.

Comment from sunita
Time October 9, 2009 at 1:14 pm

Correction: Hope you mean it, when you say you are a Patriotic American.

Comment from Carl, Patriotic American
Time October 9, 2009 at 1:58 pm

The article in the Mail was what anyone familiar with the Mail would expect. I can’t believe money was wasted to do a survey whose results could have been foretold by anyone. I, nor anyone I have ever met, would claim that there are not excesses in UK welfare payments. Some of the same problems plague the rest of Europe as well. I don’t know anyone that would claim that there aren’t also numerous problems here, especially with people “working the system.” Would you advocate completely eliminating all safety nets? Or, do you recognize that here, as elsewhere, it takes consistent vigilence to catch and punish the cheaters. In the 90’s the Clinton Administration did just that with his welfare to work model. Was it perfect? No. Does that mean he shouldn’t have tried? No. I wear no blindfold and did not advocate doing anything the European way. I did point out that much of Europe does a better job of providing for mass transit and taking care of their poor. We can do better with the mentally disturbed homeless that are left to wander the streets; and, we most assuradly don’t need to eliminate the school lunch program or CHIP programs which provide healthcare for kids. I makes me a Patriotic American to advocate improving what we have. It is only the republicans that I hear yelling about how bad health care, etc is in Europe. I hear the democratic leaders in Congress and the POTUS saying we need an American solution to the problems that rational Americans recognize. Rush, Palin, and the rest of the party of no seek only to stop efforts at improvement with their motto of failure at all costs. sunita, you obviously have the right to join them and be part of the problem, or part of the solution.

Comment from Doubting Thomas
Time October 9, 2009 at 2:32 pm

This cartoonist is everything a cartoonist should be,witty,informed,a catalyst for debate etc.,but most of all,he does not care about political correctness - otherwise why even bother to speak.I particularly liked one where he drew a devils tail coming out of the Pope’s frock as he departed NY on his private jet.A lot could have been said about that cartoon,but no one spoke a word in protest.Some of his cartoons are classics which are added to my extensive library.Right now there is a big public furor going on because many believe that this most esteemed president is being blocked from performing his duties because he is black or whatever - I don’t judge by color,but others do.And the latter is exactly what I believe the cartoonist was trying to say no matter how outragious (to some) the depiction.It’s a sad characterization of who we are but true and in a Darwnian sense we are all primates so what does it matter.In music you are either in front of the beat,on top,or on the back,this crowd of blogers is all over the place and it sounds like hell - the cartoonist was right in front of the beat and sounding beautiful.The lady in question may have been completely off beat and key.This paper,and channel,and owner support the Puerto Ricon parade so the assumption of racism is wrong.Perhaps this company hires people not by color but by the content of thier portfolio and perhaps by the integrity of the person.

Comment from JimG
Time October 10, 2009 at 2:21 pm

Quote from Sunita: “Hope you mean it, when you say you are a Patriotic American.”

To Sunita: He who shits on the road will meet flies upon his return. - old African saying

Think about that next time you decide to slander someones integrity or patriotism who you don’t even know based on a valid disagreement on complex issues. Not everyone is a knee jerk radical ideologue like yourself, you know. In truth, thank goodness, most people aren’t.

Comment from Pete
Time October 11, 2009 at 9:18 pm

Need a few more facts indeed. Meanwhile, the NASCAR/KKK/NRA Repugs here vomit forth their intellectual acumen. Like scalded…apes. Yup!

Comment from Pete
Time October 11, 2009 at 9:24 pm

Poor ol’ Glennis. Hain’t seen her stuff in o’er a year. Course, ah don look 2 much. Ain’t improved that mind none! Same uncultured, uncouth critter. Got ta luv them goose-stepping goons of conformity. Hit no EZ bein’ intellectually constipated! Yup.