Comment from Miz T
Time November 6, 2009 at 3:30 pm

The first one is right on. I liked that one very much.

Comment from al sullivan
Time November 6, 2009 at 3:49 pm

These are all very moving except for the Virgina cartoon — which explains why they elected a Republica governor

Comment from Robin Schneider
Time November 6, 2009 at 4:15 pm

Seriously Al? You felt the need to be an a$$ about something totally unrelated? What a guy…

Comment from chuck
Time November 6, 2009 at 4:17 pm

I agree with Al, we don’t need the hate displayed in the Virginia cartoon right now. It’s not the time to feed on the potential distrust. Let’s remember the muslims who are fighting side by side with us.

Comment from darcy
Time November 6, 2009 at 10:02 pm

will be sharing with my h.s. history and govt students, on monday…

Comment from jesse
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:29 am

Anyone who doesn’t think that Major Murderer killed those soldiers and the civilians because he was a Muslim hell bent on Jihad is part of the suicidal Cult of Political Correctness that is threatening to destroy the United States of America. Our laws, customs, and freedoms are being exploited by our enemies to insinuate themselves and their pseudo-religion and its laws into all aspects of our lives. I call it a pseudo-religion because it is actually a political movement with a religious component, all designed to impose one-world domination of Islam, a word that doesn’t mean “peace,” it means submission and the peace that comes when you are submissive to the will of Allah. And who tells you what the will of Allah is? The “imams,” many of whom are fine but there’s enough of them in power positions, full power positions, that are downright out of their minds. All religions are not equal. All cultures are not equal. Study Islam and you will see that I am correct. Major Murderer was not crazy, he was fighting Jihad the best way he knew how. How many other “sleeper” jihadists are there in our society? We’re going to find out, one way or another.

Comment from Ted
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:54 am

God bless Jim McCloskey for sparing us the PCBS

Comment from Dave
Time November 7, 2009 at 1:41 am

“These are all very moving except for the Virgina cartoon — which explains why they elected a Republica governor”

Typical leftist trying to make political points via a tragedy. Probably got sexually aroused by Columbine.

Comment from Dane
Time November 7, 2009 at 3:25 am

jesse…You are ’spot on’ with your statement. Political correctness = willful ignorance.

Comment from dangli
Time November 7, 2009 at 3:35 am

What\’s missing from most of these is anger - anger at the shooter, anger at the political correct system that let it come to this, anger at our politcally correct media which obfuscates the motivations behind the attack and turns the killer into a victim.

Comment from Mike
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:35 am

Al and Chuck are so PC they are even afraid to mention the name of the enemy. Islam has declared war on the West and America. The Islamic leaders have said so, not America. Let\’s see. Hasan prosletyzed for Islam , got angry and violent when people wouldn\’t worship allah, he stated he didn\’t want to shoot at quote \"fellow muslims\". was a member of a notoriously violent mosque in DC, and screamed allah akbar as he murdered infidels. If Al and Chuck don\’t think this terrorist attack had anything to do with islam, they are deluded beyond belief. I am sure of one thing boys; when someone declares themselves your enemy, says they are at war with you and kills your citizens at home and abroad, you damn well better fight back or your children will be murdered by maniacs while asleep in their own beds. If we follow Al and Chucks PC advice. we will cease to exist as a nation and as a people.

Comment from poison_pawn
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:57 am

the virginia one was the funniest one; i also liked the Indianapolis one. and i agree with every one exept chuck, and al; especialy jesse. you all need to wake up this is no joke!

Comment from bobc
Time November 7, 2009 at 7:10 am

My condolences to all the families and friends! This political correctness is going to be the downfall of all Western countries!

Comment from Texan
Time November 7, 2009 at 7:56 am

Why did the lame-stream media say this terrorist soldier was Jordanian? He was a palestinian: the same as the murderer of Bobby Kennedy, one of the 9/11 hijackers, and the same people who were cheering in the streets passing out candy after 9/11. And the US is hell-bent on forcing Israel to give these people a state on their God given land? Read the history books, The Balfour Agreement going back to 1922 created a palestinian state in the land of Jordan, long before most of the middle east countries were created from the Ottoman Empire. Those that go against Israel or the Jews are destinied
to feel the wrath of God. Good luck with the political correctness (ie. kissing the muslims butts). We Texans are locked and loaded.

Comment from americadied
Time November 7, 2009 at 7:57 am

shut up and MOURN, stop criticizing other posts, for the time being we still have free speech. it was a terrorist attack. condolences to the families

Comment from jmj1941
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:00 am

Instead of worrying about offending Muslims, don’t you think it is time to make sure there are no more traitors in the United States military? Sick man, of course. But entirely typical of insane islamists.

Comment from GunnyMarine84
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:04 am

As a career Marine and a father who had two sons serving in the mid-east losing one son to a IED I find it disgusting that the LAME STREAM MEDIA is finding excuses for the jihadist. I never knew PTSD was as easy to catch as the common cold. All you have to do is talk to someone who has it and has dealt with the nightmares and the \\"freaks\\" and whamo you\\\’ve got it too. I better get my wife checked if that logic holds because she has lived with me during some of the worst moments with something triggers it.
This person who committed this is nothing more than a terrorist whacko yes I said whacko I have earn that right. and all the PCers who have never heard a shot fired in anger remember this your ability to sit and whine bitch and moan was brought to you courtesy of an American Soldier.

Comment from Lee Raines
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:23 am

The Virginia carytoon is \"right on.\" If America doesn\’t deal with the radical enemy within, our country will become subjected to its fanaticism and violence. We must deal with the radical Muslim problem, soon.

Comment from TW
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:32 am

The Virginia cartoon is spot on.
No war will ever be won if the enemy is not identified.
Islam is at war with the west and infiltrating the country.

God Bless the families of those killed in Ft.Hood & be with the wounded.

Comment from bob
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:36 am

soooooooooo, hows that obama thing going for you now??

Comment from Texan
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:39 am

GunnyMarine84:

Ditto on your post and my heartfelt condolences on the loss of your son. I for one, am grateful for your service and those of your son’s to this country. We mourn the loss of all our brave servicemen and women defending this great country. Even the limp-wristed shemales that spit on you when you return from battle and who step on our flag. God will have a special place for them in the anals of hell when it’s their turn to meet their maker. God Bless you and your family, from this retired Firefighter.

Comment from dorothyd
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:55 am

This incident was avoidable. The govt knew about the shooter for six months and did nothing. How many disgruntled, suicidal soldier you know that would say “ALLAHU AKBAR” before open fired on his fellow soldiers? Oh, but don’t jump to conclusion now, Obama said.
Do you feel the CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN? After the bowing and apologizing to the Muslim world, Obama has now brought the war on terrorist, sorry….it’s man made disaster, home to America.
To all the Bush hating people, do you feel safe now?
WAKE UP AMERICA, the terrorists and their families of 9/11 were living among us for more than 5 yrs before their mission just like this nut case shooter at Ft. Hood. The radical Jidhadists are living among us but DHS don’t care about them. They are too busy going after RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS and the Tea Party groups instead.

Comment from Bill
Time November 7, 2009 at 9:04 am

Thanks Jesse. You nailed it.

Worst TERRORIST ATTACK on U.S. soil since 9/11.

WAKE UP!

Comment from Stan
Time November 7, 2009 at 9:05 am

I’m not a great fan of GW Bush, but following 9/11, he did prevent any further terrorist attacks on our soil.

Until now. This administration won’t protect us. Pray that God does.

Comment from Robert
Time November 7, 2009 at 9:32 am

First, I want to say that I am praying for the all of our military and our country, because events like this destroy military moral and our country\’s will to defeat this entrenched worldwide evil. We need to understand that if we do not rid the world of this evil now that that our country will experience many more 9-11-2001 events in the future. We also need to understand that everyone of these cartoons are absolutely true and relevant to the emotions associated to this Fort Hood terrorist event, and any American critical of of these cartoons is a threat to our country and to our current freedoms, and it is people that are guilty of of aiding that evil enemy and are assisting in the willful destruction of the American way of creed, Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Comment from ED
Time November 7, 2009 at 9:47 am

Jesse; everyone knows it, few have the guts to say it; even fewer will do anything about it. From Canada; my heartfelt sympathies.

Comment from Jim
Time November 7, 2009 at 9:49 am

Looks like Al is a good little fascistic braindead puppet of the extremist (jihadist) vaste left wing minions of the Cllintonista erra and the “hate the Repulicans” view that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed and their ilk seem to espouse…they are very similar to Islam in their hate and disgust for anyone who does not put on the mantel of left wing subserviance and cowardice. For the eight years tha Bush was in office neither of these two whackos ever opened their mouths without blaming Bush for their own failures.

John Kennedy once said…”a person can fail many times in life…but only when they begin to blame someone else for their failures…do they themselves really become a FAILURE.”

America I give you the left, the progressives, the Congress of the United States, the current President and all his minions. And of course little Al up there.

Seeing that Bush is now gone…they have to (like the Nazis - hated the Jew) find someone to dispise and blame for everything they do wrong or they teach our children and people to do wrong…and to feed the moral depravity in their own mindless hate filled souls…and this crazy fellow in his hatefilled mindless puppetlike faith…decided to take this hate and put it into actions.

Voting in republicans Al may actucally bring some sanity back to both politics and society…leaving Nancy Pelosi, Obama and Reed and about 4 dozen other Jihadist in power is what is really insane.

Comment from ED
Time November 7, 2009 at 9:52 am

Of all the above cartoons, only the second last from the bottom one deals with the Muslim Jihad problem. All the rest avoid it.

Comment from GT Horvat
Time November 7, 2009 at 10:10 am

By the way…These are not cartoons! These are opinionated commentaries! That said… Why don’t people stop trying to be politically correct and start facing up to the truth. The truth is no further away than the nearest Koran. Read it if you dare! It tells jerks like Husan to go out there and kill indiscriminately as many non-Muslim people as possible if they wont convert to Islam and it’s alright! That’s where the problem lies and it will never go away! Never! All Muslims are our enemies as long as they adhere to such a radical doctrine. Unfortunately what happened at Fort Hood is what we have to look forward to. P.S. Look at the way Obama reacted to the news and then try to tell me that he converted to Christianity from Islam. Don’t make me laugh!!!

Comment from TheKm
Time November 7, 2009 at 10:21 am

These are some pretty disturbing comments.

Islamic Jihad does not mean any Muslim killing any person at any time for any reason.

It is disrespectful to our fallen American soldiers to make any assumptions about the cause of their deaths until every single fact is in hand. They’ve earned better than that. Jim McCloskey should be ashamed of himself.

Comment from Bob from Missouri
Time November 7, 2009 at 11:06 am

I personally don’t know whether Islam is a peaceful religion or not. But consider this:
a) If it IS, then why don’t the leaders and other members of this “peaceful” religion CONDEMN acts like this very soon after the news is released instead of simply complaining that their religion respects everyone and berating others for blaming all of them?

b) If it actually IS a peaceful religion and no one speaks out in condemnation of what was done, they are essentially letting the radicals run the religion. In that case, their claims are bogus.

I’m tired of hearing condemnation of the religion itself but NO condemnation of the atrocious acts committed.

Comment from Christine
Time November 7, 2009 at 11:06 am

My heart weeps for those that trusted this man among them. I am not one to paint all Muslims as jihadists. We have many who fight alongside our own soldiers, but in the military and out. For those that knew him, who heard his anger and disdain for non-Muslims and did not speak out, shame on you. There are red flags that should not be ignored.

Comment from Don
Time November 7, 2009 at 11:12 am

I wouldn\\\’t mind at all discussing the Virginia cartoon with sullivan, in private of course…..

The more this kind of thing happens the more apparent \\" We the people \\" will eventually have to take matters in our own hands again. Being a Veteran myself it sickens me to have to sit by and watch \\"ovomit\\" and his crony left wing democrats regurgitate their PC bile and run this country into the ground.

Comment from EyesWideOpen
Time November 7, 2009 at 11:29 am

Sadly, our country is in more danger from the progressives than it is from any jihadist maniacs in this world. No third-world muslim nut-job could anything to us, if the progressive/politically correct/let-em-all-in crowd didn’t encourage it. I pray that the sleeping (aka silent) majority will wake up before it’s too late. God is the answer, and the progressives are taking this nation as far from His side as they can. And away from Him, we have NO protection.

Comment from Samuel
Time November 7, 2009 at 11:45 am

The Virginia cartoon which actually says “Muslim” outloud is the ONLY one that gets it. If our country hadn’t become a European-like political-correctness insane asylum, somebody would have mentioned his Islamist extremist comments and web postings earlier. Thirteen brave people might still be alive.

Go ahead, libs. Bury your heads in the sand under the pretense of being “sensitive,” and morally superior to the rest of us. I just hope they plant the oil-drum-filled nuke device from Iran in your back yard and not those of true patriots, really concerned about our country and the terrorist threats. Don’t talk, by the way, about conservatives electing a Republican governor. Our BIG problem is your having elected a Muslim socialist as president. He’s actually saying today, “Don’t jump to conclusions.” Huh? The guy yelled the Muslim equivalent of Bonsai before the attack. Did you ever notice none of these attracks are ever done by a guy named Smith or O’Callahan?

Comment from Robert
Time November 7, 2009 at 11:50 am

As an Army Officer who’s been in iraq a couple of times, I would have to say the Virginia one is the most correct; for the liberals and pacifists’ I recommend you go to an islamic country and tell them how you love them. I’m sure you won’t be back. For those who think the muslims are fighting side by side with us you might want to keep up with the news so that you don’t show all of your ignorance at one setting. You also might want to realize we’re basically just bribing them with our tax dollars to help out. Then they turn on us when our troops are used to them and kill our troops. I hope you follow the directions in the first sentence. For the rest let me just leave you with the truth; we are at war with islam, period! You PC degenerates can spin it any way you want, but it’s just a matter of time before they hit our schools. Although by then you PC degenerates will have another reason for your vitriolic hatred of America to extend itself to finding any excuse for the muslims peaceful religion.

Comment from dwath
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:23 pm

So sorry, to the apologists for Islam out there, where is any shred of evidence of the peaceful nature of Islam? Graph the level of Islamic control in any country against any good societal measure you care to chose–good economic activity, good social activity, freedom of religion, freedom of speech–pick what is nearest and dearest to you–and watch the result. The more Islam controls, the worse the situation is. Historically, Islam expanded by the sword. As for the Islamic groups in this country, you need not scratch deep to see \\"radical\\" connections. Their primary concern seems to be protecting themselves and the Islamic community from blow back from the actions of their more committed fellow Muslims. If the rank and file Muslim in the west was about peace, you would have massive demonstrations in the US, Canada and across Europe over the depredations done on societies around the world by so called \\"Radical Muslims.\\" The truth is, the silence is deafening. Even those few that do try to distance the religion from this type of action get a lot of press showing up at their activities, but, very precious few Muslims. Why? Because the religion ID\\\’s itself w/ the actions of the radicals and those in the faith who do not agree are afraid to stand up and be counted because their number is just too tiny.

Comment from Gordon Rodgers
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:25 pm

The best cartoon would be one with the major standing and Obama, Axelrod, Rahmbo, Holder and Gibbs bowed down before him crying, “My Hero.”

Comment from Barry
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:27 pm

EXCLUDE: chuck, al, and km.

Thank you, all others for your American spirit !!!!!

no political correctness needed ( You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything)

Comment from Robert
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:30 pm

Robert, thank you for your service to America and for all your efforts to eradicate the enemies of the United States of America. What is sad is that our country does not have the will to eradicate the domestic enemies, and our country will not be secure until these domestic enemies are remove from our borders.

Comment from vincent
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:47 pm

Mainstream “news”(lol) not sayin anything about the MUSLIM being watched by FBI for 6 months either.

Comment from Jeb
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:47 pm

Religion of peace my a$$…

It’s a cult of murderers and pedophiles, following right along with their pedophile prophet. We cannot fight side by side with these foul creatures, they all must be destroyed.

Comment from Robert
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:49 pm

I just want to make that all of you understand that I carry no hatred towards any people the believe and follow the Islamic religion, but I would be a fool not to recognize that it is the followers of the Islamic religion that are the enemies of America, and the fact that they are enemies of America is because that is what is the koran teaches and directs its followers to hate and destroy America. This is just another sad fact about the Islamic religion, and we as country need to stand-up and recognize that Islam was born from evil and it will always be evil.

Comment from Palmer
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:52 pm

Enough of this damned political correctness!!!
- The Columbine killers were teenagers. I say “round up ALL the teenagers”
- The Virginia Tech massacre was the work of a South Korean. I say “round up ALL the South Koreans”
- The Oklahoma Bombing was the work of two white Americans. I say “round up ALL the white Americans”
- The Binghamton massacre was the work of a Vietnamese man. I say “round up ALL the Vietnamese”
- um… Actually, I think the Binghamton guy was ethnically Chinese as well, so … I say “round up ALL the Chinese”
- a Canadian man was responsible for the Montreal Massacre. I say “round up ALL the Canadians”
We’ll never put an end to this madness if we don’t start getting tough - and blame the right groups.

Comment from Cindy
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:55 pm

Chuckie Cheese:
The Virginian cartoon embodies TRUTH and FACT. Take your head out of the sand. These people want to KILL you. But, since you think murderers are so great, go find one, bow down to them and dedicate yourself to being their slave, you’re already a cheerleader for them.

When there are mass muslim demonstrations against these Islamic terrorists, then I’ll believe they could possibly be our friends.

When these terrorists come down YOUR street, the first person you’ll wish for is an armed US soldier.
In the meantime, keep drinking the kool-aid.

Comment from Robert
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:55 pm

Thank Palmer for being a hater of America!

Comment from jrsmac
Time November 7, 2009 at 12:56 pm

Yes there are obviously terrorists in our midst with all of our open borders and pc correctness.
And I am afraid many more things are going to happen.
I believe we are under God\’s judgment!!!!!!!!!
The worse is yet to come!
Only by repenting and praying will we find God\’s mercy!!!!

There have been visions by Christians of Russia sneak attacking America by nuclear submarines right off our shores.
WHY????
\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"SIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"

Please investigate these visions on the internet.
Type in - America in Prophecy
Russia and China is going to overcome America.
There are also visions of America\’s economy crashing.

One link below, with a little from a vision.
This is coming unless America repents.
These subs are checking us out for nuclear destruction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.unleavenedbreadmini.....ns#America

http://www.unleavenedbreadmini.....page=first

…………..Then suddenly I saw from the Atlantic and from the Pacific and out of the Gulf rocket-like objects that seemed to come up like fish leaping out of the water. High into the air they leaped, each headed in a different direction, but every one toward the United States. On the ground the sirens screamed louder, and up from the ground I saw similar rockets beginning to ascend. To me these appeared to be interceptor rockets although they arose from different points all over the United States; however, none of them seemed to be successful in intercepting the rockets that had risen from the ocean on every side. These rockets finally reached their maximum height, slowly turned over and fell back toward the earth in defeat.

Then suddenly the rockets which had leaped out of the oceans like fish all exploded at once. The explosion was ear-splitting. The next thing which I saw was a huge ball of fire. The only thing I have ever seen which resembled the thing I saw in my vision was the picture of the explosion of the H-bomb somewhere in the South Pacific. In my vision it was so real that I seemed to feel a searing heat from it.

As the vision spread before my eyes and I viewed the widespread desolation brought about by the terrific explosions, I could not help thinking, While the defenders of our nation have quibbled over what means of defense to use and neglected the only true means of defense–faith and dependence upon the true and living God–the thing which she greatly feared has come unto her! How true it has proven in Psalms 127:1: Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it; except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain……………………………………

This going to happen, please check it out!
God Bless you all!
jrsmac

Comment from Don_101st ABN
Time November 7, 2009 at 1:12 pm

We would have to start cleaning out the domestic enemies from our White House: Ovomit along with most of congress…. Some of our own worst enemies have been our elected officials who tend to waltz to their own tune of greed. Until the very quiet majority start standing up for themselves we are going to be a crippled country. As long as Money, the lobbyists, can legally bribe our officials right under our noses nothing will ever get done.

Look at their history for the last 100 or so years. Taxes, medicaid, welfare, abortion, Free trade agreements, trying to shove gun control down our throats, and bla bla bla. Most all of that seems to be driven by some lame lobbyist with a nice wad of legal bribery.

Our country was built on lobbying…and I’m all for it. But once they are allowed to give any incentives for it becomes a for of bribery.

Sorry I got a lil off topic. Bottom line is this: PC turds will not like hearing this said…but in the long run we are in a holy war like it or not.

Comment from dwath
Time November 7, 2009 at 1:30 pm

Palmer, you miss the point completely with your list. Each case you presented was a relatively isolated case. Because the teenagers did this horrible thing at Columbine does not say that teenagers everywhere do horrible things–although we do have a problem w/ teenagers but that is not the subject at hand. Same for the VA Tech Korean and so on. In the case of Islam, we have continual action on a daily basis of the most evil acts done in the name of Islam with the overwhelming majority of the practitioners either identifying with, being silent about or giving lukewarm condemnation of the acts followed by great umbrage at any statement of connection between the perpetrators and the other silent members of the faith. If you go back into the history of this religion, you see a 1600 year history of conversion by sword and brutal oppression of those who disagree. This history is pretty much unbroken.

So, you equate isolated acts with a consistent history of action and stated goals. To do this is delusional at the least and dangerous at the worst. When you are forced to choose between bowing to Mecca and death, which will you choose? This IS the well documented history and current practice of this religion. It is already within 50 years for most of Europe. In England, you can curse Christianity but, are forbidden to say anything negative about Islam. Does that not scare you?

Comment from Randy
Time November 7, 2009 at 1:50 pm

I didn’t see anything wrong with the Virginia Cartoon Al. Thank God we elected a Repubilcan Governor. Keep in mind Al that the terrorists in this world are not Baptists or Catholics. They are MUSLIM. Sorry, but that is how it is. My condolences to the families of these soldiers, may they rest in peace, may the ones who were wounded recover, and may GOD BLESS AMERICA AND OUR MILITARY!

Comment from smartalec44
Time November 7, 2009 at 1:52 pm

It’s about time we take ALL Muslims in this country and treat them like we did the Japanese during WWII.

Let’s wheel out the internment camps and give these bozos a choice. Either leave the country or be interned.The good ones won’t anonymously squeal on their terorist brothers. So let’s give them Uncle Sam’s boot in the ass with a large army boot.

How can they be trusted in the armed services.Can our services be that hard up for volunteer recruits to fight the global industrialist whims,that we have to use these insane bums.A soldier can’t even sleep his 5 hours in peace without worrying about being shot or blown up by these scum.

Comment from Randy
Time November 7, 2009 at 1:58 pm

Texan, I hate to say you’re wrong, but the murdering terrorist was NOT Jordanian. He’s an American. His parents are from Jordan. He was born in America and has lived in America his whole life. Unfortunately, this piece of crap is an American.

Comment from Randy
Time November 7, 2009 at 2:01 pm

Gunny, my condolences to you and your family for your son. He was a true hero and he is what this country is all about. God Bless you and your family. From a squid to a jarhead…SEMPER FI!

Comment from dwath
Time November 7, 2009 at 2:12 pm

Palmer, rereading the last line of your post, it seems I might have read the intent of your statement incorrectly. If so I apologize. I think we both made the same point. There is no question about motive here. The motive was Islam. Absent Islam, this tragedy would not have occurred. His harassment occurred because he was pushing Islam and could not handle the push back he got. His anger was rooted in his Islamic belief (although w/ Sunni\’s slaughtering Sufi\’s and vice a versa, I am not sure how he felt it would be wrong for him to join the battle). His indiscriminate murder of innocents was consistent with current Islamic practice throughout the world and based in a belief he would move on to better things in Paradise. Speaking to the last, at 40 years old and making a hundred k plus a year, it is interesting a man who desired wedded bliss could not find a compliant woman. Maybe we are all wrong. Maybe it was just a case of sexual frustration. Where are you Dr Sigmund when we need you so desperately? So Palmer, if I read you wrong, I apologize.

Comment from Robert Jernigan
Time November 7, 2009 at 2:40 pm

What else can you call this P.O.S. but a muslin terrorist who kills, murders brave Americans???

Comment from judah
Time November 7, 2009 at 2:43 pm

I’m in with Jesse, et al.

All religions may be equal per our constitutional freedoms, etc., but they are not equal in outcomes desired.

Same goes with political entities. Why does it matter who gets the bomb if this principle of “INequality” wasn’t true? Best guess says Israel’s had the bomb for decades, but I sleep alright at night knowing that because they’re hell-bent on survival, not destruction. Not so with the lunatic(s) in MOST of the repressive, Islamo-fascist countries that our dear CONmander in chief seems to hold such an affinity for. (I mean, puhleez…bowing before the Saudi king. Then again, not as bad probably than having to kiss Daley’s botox and every other ILLinois politico’s to get the red carpet rolled out for him.

As I was saying, a moral equivalence holding up the “act” apart from the religious/political motives of the actor is beyond trite; it’s dangerous. I say that if the terrorists (e.g., 9/11, Cole, Lebanon barracks, Oklahoma, Fort Hood) were Catholics, Hindis or Jews.

Time to see a pattern here army officials! Journalists, do your job and report the facts not your fantasy football idealizations of a new world order where everyone’s beliefs are equally valid. The shooter was Muslim and his worldview turned his motives and gun barrels upon his fellow soldiers because of it. Period, end of story.

Comment from jrsmac
Time November 7, 2009 at 2:55 pm

http://www.unleavenedbreadmini.....e=economic

Economic and Political Fall of the U.S. to the Beast
Excerpt from this vision:
…………………..
Last, I was standing high on a mountainside overlooking the ground below and I saw a man rise up, as if out from the ground; he was almost as tall as the mountain. He was wearing a white turban on his head like the Muslims wear. (This shocked me because I had always believed that the Pope would be the Antichrist. I didn’t know then that the Muslim faith was actually a brainchild of Rome in centuries past. Nor did I understand that this is a corporate man whose action will affect the entire world.) The expression on his face deeply troubled me. I thought, “Lord, he looks so gentle but I know he is most wicked! Surely everyone will be deceived by him!” My heart was so concerned for those who would be deceived. As I watched him, he lifted his right arm above his head; in his right hand he held a vial or a tall thin vase. As I looked on, he tipped it and out poured something that appeared like water. What he poured out covered the whole earth. High on the mountain I was safe, but my heart was saddened for those who were not. (Radical Islam will be the means by which great destruction and death will come to the world.)
……………………………..
God Bless!
jrsmac

Comment from Rob
Time November 7, 2009 at 2:59 pm

I\’m with you Texan but, The Balfour Agreement gave the Jewish people a homeland carved out of Jordan not the Palestinians. Historically the Jewish people didn\’t need any approval to reclaim that which was theirs in the first place. After years of having to deal with uprisings against Rome in Judea, Emperor Hadrian conquered Judea for the last time. In an effort stop the Israelites from any further insurrections, he not only defeated them but he changed all the maps and had the land renamed from Judea to Palestinia now know as Palestine. So it was there\’s to begin with.

The claim of the Palestinians is false. This historical and cultural fact is completely ignored by the Palestinians, Arabs, and the rest of the muslim world as it doesn\’t support them and their religious position. Just as the Taliban destroyed the Buddahs of Bamyan in central Afghanistan. They don\’t care if ANYTHING has any historical or archeological value unless it supports Islam. Only then, will it be spared.

As they destroy the things the can, they steal not just from those that live there. They steal and rape all of mankind from our beginning to the present and beyond, in an attempt to erase the past. The same was done by Christian missionaries from Spain when the conquistadors ravaged southern and central America. It is a tool meant to force change upon a different culture and bring them to subservience.

Just as the Chinese destroyed priceless artifacts from their own past during the cultural revolution during the reign of MAO.

I\’ve no doubt, that were they able, they would destroy every fossilized remains in every museum around the world as being idols.

I\’ll be tolerant to a point but, once you cross into my yard and try to tell how to live, think, and do, which is their goal for us all, then my tolerance ends and I will use the same tactics as they do. Unlike them, I have read \"The Art of War\" by Sun Tzu. I will win the war first. Then I will go and fight it.

Comment from DHBolero
Time November 7, 2009 at 3:25 pm

The first cartoon by Rick McKee of The Augusta Chronicle is spot on. Those of you who are politically correct and don’t think these muslims want to kill Americans and blow up stuff, check out this website: http://www.revolutionmuslim.com/

Comment from Howard
Time November 7, 2009 at 3:29 pm

Satans religion and man. Spiritual warfare the Bible talks about in these end times. We are at war with the moslems, and have been for many years and have lost way too many service men and others in this satanic crazed warfare by moslems. Only way to defeat this enemy is to stand up for righteousness and be strong and unified Americans. Many amoung us are just weak, ignorant, and confused knowing who the real enemy is. We will continue to be attacked until we fight our enemy by shipping them on their way to hell. Anyone who sides with them is welcome to go. They will have their day at the great judgment and will not like what they receive, help them on their way;. I stand with all the veterans and service men and women, all who love our country and love the Lord Jesus Christ;. Our enemy is satan and all his fallen angels and all who adhere to their way of lies, killing, and death. This from an old grey headed preacher and Navy vet.

Comment from Chuck Nixon
Time November 7, 2009 at 4:00 pm

I found it disturbing that the only armed soldier in the incident was the shooter. It took a civilian to return fire. Given this attack, the number of other Muslim service people, and other thwarted attacks intended by Muslim civilians on military facilities, the uniform of the day should include side arms. Limiting weapons to MP\’s and cops only made it easy for him to gun down as many as he did. If you add up up the dead and wounded, you\’ll realize that he had time to reload and resume shooting our soldiers like fish in a barrel because nobody could shoot back.

I don\’t endorse hounding all Muslims out of the service, because many of them are only Muslim superficially and are not a risk. (Sufi Muslims are tolerant and non-violent, but this is a minor sect). However, you can\’t tell a safe Muslim from one like this guy until they tip their hand like he did months ago which nobody took serious. If his victims and intended victims had been armed, he would not have been able to shoot more than 2-3, before being killed. Likely he would not have done it for so little return on investment.

If terrorism is a smoldering fire, politically correct policies are a 5 gallon can of gas.

Comment from Elvula
Time November 7, 2009 at 4:07 pm

There are no moderate muslims. Only jihadis and apostates.

Comment from Michael Hefets
Time November 7, 2009 at 5:06 pm

dorothyd is right on by saying, \"The radical Jidhadists are living among us but DHS don’t care about them. They are too busy going after RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS and the Tea Party groups instead.\"

Why the DHS don\’t care about the jihadists among us? Because the jihadists are not a real threat. They may kill 10 here, 50 there, or 3000 on 9/11. This is peanuts for the DHS as it does not threaten the government itself.

On the other hand, angry conservatives are a real threat to the government. They are 40 percent of the adult population. If these 50 million angry conservatives become upset enough to act, not even the entire U.S armed forces can stop them. That\’s why the DHS is so concerned.

Comment from Palmer
Time November 7, 2009 at 5:22 pm

When I was a little kid I thought the Tower of Babel mentioned in the Bible was an actual \"thing\" (like a pyramid).
Thanks to the postings on this site, I now realize that the \"Tower of Babel\" was just a prescient reference to the internet and its great ability to aggregate the babbling \"thoughts\" of paranoids, psychotics, zealots and True Believers of all stripes.
Not sure who\’s my favorite here:
- the guy who\’s having visions of rocketfish
- the guy who wants to \"Graph the level of Islamic control in any country against any good societal measure you care to chose\" (whatever the hell THAT\’S supposed to mean), or
- the community college grad who manages to lump The Balfour Agreement, Emperor Hadrian and Mao in one comment.
If America had a Hyde Park Speakers\’ Corner, most of these commenters would be standing on soapboxes talking to … themselves.
(The rest of you would be wondering why you were standing on soapboxes.)

Comment from chris edwards
Time November 7, 2009 at 5:31 pm

This was the fault of the left and all politically correct asses everywhere, read the koran (then use it for wiping your butt) there are no moderate muslims, it is in the text, often, do not trust them, as part of their religion they have rules actually not so many, basicaly kill or cure infidels, treat women below animals, dont drink alcohol and regard mohammed like a god, unless you are breaking the laws to disadvantage or kill infidels then everything is a-ok. Blame all who do not uphold your constitution, shoot those where you can prove it.

Comment from ellis
Time November 7, 2009 at 5:42 pm

eferyone seems to have forgotten timothy mcvey and his motives for killing all those people in oklahoma. he was a christian who wanted to destroy present day america and turn it into a god fearing state, a theocracy like present day iran. our founders were correct in keeping church and state separate, but the evangelical right never seems to have learned this lesson. we now have a number of good examples from which they can learn; theocracies, the justification to commit murder because a doctor does abortions, the hatred of the government notwithstanding the party in power, just plain hatred, and of course those who are just insane.

Comment from Ormond Otvos
Time November 7, 2009 at 5:44 pm

For every violent message and crazed hater in the hierarchy of Islam I can quote you a violent message from a crazed hater Christian evangelist, dominionist and American exceptionalist.

Why are you people so unable to see the beam in your own eye, even when YOUR holy book points it out to you?

Jesus himself, in Luke, said he would turn brother against brother, son against father if they followed him.

Exclusionist religion is a major cause of world conflict. Why add to it with these hate speeches?

Religion is the problem, but not just Islam.

Comment from Palmer
Time November 7, 2009 at 5:48 pm

damn.
I forgot all about that!
muslims don’t drink alcohol.
well, hell.
THAT explains just about everything!!!!
after all, people who consume alcohol (as we know) are ALL a-ok!
Your next one’s on me, Chris.
ps: What I like best about ol’ Chris is that he’s not one of those moderate non-muslims.

Comment from Sunita
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:10 pm

Guys,
Its no point raving and ranting like this on blogs. Stop wasting your time and start the movement to vote republican.
REPUBLICAN 2010 WHOEVER THE CANDIDATE.
Thats the only way to stop these donkeycrats.
We have been left with no choice. NO CHANGE HAPPENS WITH ONLY HOPE.
CHANGE HAPPENS WITH ACTION.
Start acting now or we will all end up mortgaging and giving up our children’s freedom.
REPUBLICAN 2010 WHOEVER THE CANDIDATE.

Comment from Pete
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:17 pm

And, Little Jim, weak-minded Repugs like you must constantly find someone/something to hate more than you hate yourselves. You are life’s most loathsome losers, “Patriot.” Angry, bitter, uneducated, ignorant. By all means, let’s return the 2 cowardly BushDrunks and their ilk. You go, Lil Jim! Yup.

Comment from Cat
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:20 pm

You all do realize that it\’s almost entirely probable that the person responsible for the shooting was a member of the military during the Bush administration.

That was only a year ago.

Comment from dfgdfgdfg
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:24 pm

This was a detailed elaborate plot by the muslim in the white house, to pull attention away from his hitler like health care issue! Have one of his muslim brothers kill non muslims to have the media focus on it instead of his agenda! Too coincidental they both happen on the same day!

Comment from Sunita
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:30 pm

Ormond,

Though you are 100% right, I have a question to you. Why is it that wherever there are muslims the world that there is a problem.
Palestine
Iran
Iraq
Kashmir
Indonesia
etc, etc, the list goes on.
Please explain why they never want to discuss issues peacefully? WHY? Whats the F#@$king problem in discussing without violence for these people?
Why no where do the so called good muslims stand up against these problem characters in their community? Why do they never ever say, the others are right to condemn the religion till such people do not change their disruptive methods? Why is it that only we have to understand and compromise? When are these guys going to say enough is enough no more bloodshed?
STOP THIS BLOODSHED. Thats all we want.
Stupid like you ormond do not understand the frustration and helplessness of the families who have lost their sons, their parents, their bread earners without any fault of their own in these 9/11 and bomblasts all around the world.
You will never know Ormond. If it was a one off, the pains recede with time, but these messengers of Satan keep on inflicting wound upon wound, one after the other, without stopping or giving time for healing.
Please do not misunderstand me Ormond, I am not saying we have to exterminate them. All I am saying is Quarantine them. We are left with no choice.
If we do not then we and our children are in constant danger from these people.
Please try and understand. All we want is peace, and justice and safety for us and our kids and our future generations.
Please stop thinking as they teach you. Start thinking with your own logic and reasoning using facts as fuel and history as your direction.
Please I request you.

Comment from Monet
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:39 pm

Bish–your cartoon has no women in that line to St. Peter. Stereotypical thinking, or do you assume the women went elsewhere? C’mon *guys* do your homework. If you drew this cartoon right away before victims were identified, I can understand, but still…one might assume…

Comment from anoldman
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:49 pm

Palmer: your smug elitism is showing. As the President of France said of Obama, arrogance and ignorance is a really bad combination. Review your comment. How many South Koreans, Vietnamese, Chinese, teenagers, etc., do you know who have done this? Is there a trend? Can you say the same for Islam?
May the \"peace\" of Islam not find you before you wake up from your arrogant ignorance. And, please, stay out of the way. The rest of us have a job to do.

Comment from S. James
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:56 pm

Having lived in two Muslim countries and worked in one, I came in contract with many followers of Islam. Although on the outside they may seem to be warm, considerate, honest, and thinking people; those who followed the Holy Quran truely believed that non-followers are enemies who, under proper circumstances, can be killed with impunity. When backed up to a wall they can react in ways unfamiliar to western tradition. As the population of Muslims grows in the west, expect more outbursts such as the horrific one in Ft. Hood. Be afraid America, be very afraid. The only answer is for Muslim people to police their own, which is unlikely, as the Holy Quran can be interpreted as condoning such behavior.

Comment from infantrymom
Time November 7, 2009 at 6:56 pm

What scares me is that this man is supposed to be helping soldiers like my son reintegrate after being deployed and would be going overseas to help soldiers deal with the emotional impact of the war zone. How many other \"professionals\" attached to the Army are out there bent on doing lasting damage to the very people who are putting their lives on the line every day? What an awful way to repay our sons and daughters, husbands and wives who are deployed in an effort to stabilize a part of the world that is bent on destroying our planet all in the name of jihad!

Comment from PFMinTN
Time November 7, 2009 at 7:18 pm

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?f.....eId=115370

Farah nails it.

Comment from Bob in Ohio
Time November 7, 2009 at 7:22 pm

When are we going to stop this PC crap and start defending ourselves against these Muslim animals? It’s time to take the gloves off and purge these beasts from the face of the earth. Level Mecca at the height of the pilgammge- problem solved!!!!

Comment from Dave Payne Sr
Time November 7, 2009 at 7:29 pm

The comment made by Jesse is spot on! We need to identify potential muslim terrorists in this country and Watch Them Like A Hawk!! We are allowing them to infiltrate this country and our current \"President\" actually Supports them!! I would not let a muslim anywhere CLOSE to ANY Military base, government building, or Any place they could suddenly \"lose it\" and do what this MURDERING Major did! Simply, muslims are NOT to be trusted-period! And some in our society want me to give up my guns?! Not in this lifetime! They may be the only things that save me or my family or innocent bystanders from one of the Whackos!! In fact, it should be a LAW that Everyone of legal age MUST own at least one gun and be proficient in using it. The fact that 90 MILLION Americans own guns is not lost on these Nut Cases. That is why they are sneaking into the country instead of just simply invading and over-running it!! All of us who ARE armed would blow their stinking butts away! I have no sympathy for them. It may be cliche\’, old and worn out, but the adage that \"not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim\" is still 100% accurate! Political correctness is getting us into some Serious trouble and it needs to be Stopped!
God bless the USA, and the families of those soldiers and civilians gunned down by a muslim Whacko!! May God also protect and save us, as our government certainly is not!

Comment from Sunita
Time November 7, 2009 at 7:30 pm

Bob,
No that is not the answer. Then there will be no difference between us and those savages.
We do not want to become like them. All we want to do is not give them another opportunity to find us unprepared.
We will not fight it as a war of religions, but rather as a war of right and wrong.
The fact is we are right and they are wrong.
Period.

Comment from jrsmac
Time November 7, 2009 at 7:41 pm

Why is America having so much trouble???????????????
Read Deuteronomy 28.
Read it! Read it! Read it!
This is happening to us!!!!!
It’s a long chapter.
It is about what happens to a nation that obeys God, and what happens to a nation that does not!
This is what is happening to us, we are under God’s judgment.

WE NEED TO REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2 Chronicles 7: 13 “When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, {{{{{14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.}}}}}

“send a plague among my people,” could that be muslim terrorists, a deceitful evil President and Democratic controlled legislature, rampant sex perverts, and gangs, and drug users, etc.?????????

2 Timothy 3
Godlessness in the Last Days
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

jrsmac

Comment from MtnMyst
Time November 7, 2009 at 7:58 pm

There is no excuse to have muslims in our Military! Our heroes have a difficult enought time defending our country without having to worry about an attack by the very people who are supposed to be standing beside them. I don\’t care how un-PC it sounds, but frankly these vipers have no place in our country, period! As this particular follower of \"the religion of peace\" has illustrated, we cannot even trust muslims who were born in our great United States! Round \’em up and put them somewhere that they can be watched (Death Valley comes to mind, with Alcatraz as the abode for the Gitmo terrorists) and let them fight it out among themselves. If they kill each other, great, less scum for us to support. And I would start with the muslim in the White House, who within a few minutes of his buddy being arrested said that the police acted \"stupidly\" but yet now counsels us to wait and \"give it time\" when this guy yells \"allah akbar\" before slaughtering and wounding our heroes. Oh, and he spent three minutes of his speech giving \"shout outs\" to his pals and posing for a photo op before even bringing up the subject of the horrendous massacre. He needs to be removed from office immediately before he hands us over to our enemies on a silver platter. By the way, Where\’s The Birth Certificate?!

Comment from Abe Whitman
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:05 pm

war on muslims & comms now!!!
talk to your neighbors
meet and arm yourselves
reach out to other decent people
dont be afraid

PS Jim McCloskey - The News Leader (Virginia) was great!!

Comment from Glen
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:11 pm

Lots of knee-jerking, not a lot of understanding. Treating psychiatrists are known to have a lot of mental problems because of their profession. They, and policemen are two of the most stressful occupations we have. As a result, they have marital and stress related problems far above the norm. The age old cure-all for such stress is turning to religion, to hit the bottomless bottle of faith. After that, all bets are off. Murder and suicide are not uncommon outcomes of such reliance on the irrational.

When under stress for manning, our army has always been reluctant to release personnel who are in trouble on account of stress. As a combat veteran and army retiree, I have seen this a number of times. The Major did clearly signal his distress long before he mentally went ‘over the hill.’ He was ignored, as have been many others. He is certainly not the only one that killed his own comrades; however, most who have done similar deeds were Christians rather than Muslims.

Comment from jrsmac
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:22 pm

One more vision to share.
These are not my visions, but visions of others.
More terrible times than you can imagine are coming, that is why I am trying to alert people.
Get right with God, through His Son Jesus.
I used to wonder about people that said bad things were going happen .
But since reading God’s Word and checking things against the book of Revelation and other places in the Bible, I am “ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED” these things are going to happen to America.
We have forsaken God, so God has let us go.

REPENT, PRAY FOR AMERICA, MAYBE GOD WILL CHANGE HIS MIND ABOUT OUR DESTRUCTION.
HE CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT DESTROYING NINEVEH IN THE BOOK OF JONAH, (read it yourself), BECAUSE THEY REPENTED!

A vision of America
http://www.unleavenedbreadmini.....icaanation

America, a Nation of Refugees

Vincent Xavier - 7/10/08

Americans will be roaming through the streets. The Lord has shown this writer that America will be known as a NATION OF REFUGEES. People will be roaming to and fro from one city to another, seeking shelter and rest. The Lord said what we saw in New Orleans after the hurricane called Katrina hit will become a national reality. Just as those people fled from their destroyed city to other cities, so shall it be in the days ahead. Because of the several nuclear detonations, natural disasters and other terrorist-related incidents in major cities across America on the same day, millions will be wandering from sea to shining sea looking for a place of safety and rest.

During this time of wandering people will become infected as biological and chemical weapons are released upon the population. Great food shortages and water shortages are going to cause rioting and looting in an unprecedented way. Great violence will emerge and a strong spirit of brutality will manifest. KATRINA IS THE PICTURE multiplied a thousand times.

Las Vegas, Nevada will be a GHOST TOWN. People will be wandering through the emptied and mostly destroyed casinos and city shopping malls. They will fondle gambling “chips” that possess no value. Las Vegas shall surely be a haunt of every unclean bird and jackals will reside in that place.

Martial law will be imposed within the nation. A time of complete desperation will hit. Those who barked like dogs in so-called revivals will whimper at the devastation and all their foolery will amount to nothing. Those who refused to repent, but went after the GIFTS, will come away empty-handed and their short-lived healings will be met with eternal burnings because their hearts were led astray into great deception, as the Scriptures said they would.

The burning heart of repentance can no longer be seen in America. The cry for repentance is falling upon deaf ears and the masses are being led into the slaughter. The day of slaughter began on 9/11; it has escalated into a worldwide epidemic as hundreds of thousands are being destroyed daily.

The prophets are fools (those in the harlot church)! The people are mad upon their idols! A sword against the treasury of the United States has been unsheathed. I will strike their treasures and take them away to another land. I will transfer the wealth of the nation to another.

It is over! The collapse is sure! The time of debate is ended! America will be a nation of refugees. Those who hate shall meet with hatred! Those who mocked shall be a derision! Those who refused to obey shall be punished! Terror shall take hold of a nation that has forsaken the LAW OF THE LORD!

SAINTS, find your way to the cities of refuge now! Begin to build your lives in those places. Go to those places that uphold the Laws of the Lord. You will be protected. Build cities that will welcome and provide for survivors who are sent from the Lord. These will be seeking Christ Jesus from true hearts. Establish Godly leaders within the cities of refuge for the transfer will come to a nation within a nation! Fill up the storehouses! Many will be led by the Spirit to these safe places they never knew of.

The coastlands will perish! Seek refuge now! It is late! Let us not linger anymore!

Comment from jrsmac
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:33 pm

To read Deuteronomy 28 online.
http://www.biblegateway.com/pa.....ersion=NIV

Comment from anoldman
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:49 pm

Glen, when are you people going to wake up and stop making excuses for these terrorists? What is it going to take? I wonder if even a nuclear attack would change your mantra. The man was not mentally ill — he was a life-long muslim extremist. And unless post-combat stress syndrome is contagious, it is not the issue. The worst stress this man ever faced was passing his medical exams while the taxpayer (that’s us, the worthy-of-slaughter infidels) footed the bill.
And please give us a list of Christians who have committed mass murder of their military comrades in the name of their religion before you make such hare-brained accusations.

Comment from Mamasauras
Time November 7, 2009 at 8:54 pm

My son is stationed at Fort Hood. I am having a hard time finding this an appropriate subject for a political cartoon.

Comment from Palmer
Time November 7, 2009 at 9:21 pm

to “anoldman”:
I’m not seeing a whole lot of difference between your “all knowing” views and those of jrsmac
well … ok.
yours ARE shorter.

but I will defend to the death the rights of both of you to express your visions.
oops.
I meant to say “opinions”

Comment from Ormond Otvos
Time November 7, 2009 at 9:36 pm

Sunita, as you see, the craziness from the religious and \\"patriotic\\" is without reason or understanding that there are other ways of thinking about the world.

This isn\\\’t really about Islam and the USA. It\\\’s about the absolutely piggish way the West has been exploiting and colonializing the oil countries, Africa, and South America.

We dance around it, never noticing that it\\\’s always something, and we never understand that for literal centuries, the American goliath has blundered around, sucking up resources, exploiting and enslaving anyone who succumbs to their force.

I much prefer the explanation that the Third World is getting really tired of being presumed savages because they haven\\\’t exploited and enslaved.

It\\\’s about time that the world equalized a bit, and the USA backed off from their parasitic feeding frenzy on the bodies of the poor. Other people are human, too, and have the exact same rights to food, shelter and education as Americans, who have no divine right to everything they want.

That reasonableness on Obama\\\’s part is what enrages the bitter Americans who understand, but will never admit, that their time of luxury and theft of services is over. The slaves must now be paid, or war will be continuous. Obama understands this, he grew up with those brown people Americans despise so much. He\\\’s even familiar with how we treat our own poor.

Yeah, Obama! May you stop the war between the rich and poor!

Comment from jrsmac
Time November 7, 2009 at 10:06 pm

Comment from Ormond Otvos
Time November 7, 2009 at 9:36 pm
\"Yeah, Obama! May you stop the war between the rich and poor!\"
—————————————————————————————————————–

What does it take for some people to see the truth??????????????????????

Matthew 13
13……………Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving………
……………

Comment from jrsmac
Time November 7, 2009 at 10:13 pm

The house just passed the health care reform bill.
God have mercy!

As I had just posted:
What does it take for our leaders to see the truth??????????????????????
This is against the will of the people!
This is not about health care, it is about taking away our freedoms!

Matthew 13
13……………Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving………
……………

Comment from Elvula
Time November 7, 2009 at 10:17 pm

There are no moderate muslims. There are only jihadis and apostates.

Comment from Sunita
Time November 7, 2009 at 10:34 pm

Ormond,

You are foolish to think so and so is the world.
We pay for those resources, and if the people who get the money do not distribute it evenly, then the people of those countries should fight the sellers and not the US.

Even if it is true that the US meddles in those countries(Which definitely is not the case) ,
then also it is not the US but the people who do not respect their own country and countrymen who should be blamed.
Show me one inch of land on mother earth can prove that it is or has been a colony of USA.
It is a shame on their own people who are ready to sell their own motherland. Remember if we will not buy those resources, they will find somebody else, or else black market those resources.
Remember food for oil program by your beloved UN? Remember the corruption involved in that? Where do you think all that money involved in the black marketing went?
So stop this nonsense about exploitation and other such BS.

Start thinking in the right way. As I said, stop thinking the way you learn in Schools.
Start thinking using logic and facts as your guide.
Its time people like you stop your nonsense.
Enough is enough.

Comment from John
Time November 7, 2009 at 10:48 pm

At what point do we start trusting the Muslims?? The Afgan police officer that shot the Canadians or any else that can infiltrate us?? Just another example of who do we trust??

Comment from Ormond Otvos
Time November 7, 2009 at 11:02 pm

The God Virus, an excellent book. Read it.

Cognitive science, the foundation of understanding human behavior.

Evolutionary Psychology, scaring religious nutcases for thirty years.

Richard Dawkins, brave man.

Comment from anoldman
Time November 7, 2009 at 11:09 pm

Goodonya, Palmer. When you get caught out resort to attempted smears. You people never change.

Comment from Sunita
Time November 7, 2009 at 11:19 pm

Ormond,

As I said, grow up. Stop reading dumb books and believing them to be true.
Read books to learn, but use brains to analyze.
If you cannot analyze and differentiate between the right and the wrong, then, all your education and knowledge is nothing but waste.
Whats the point of being knowledgeable when you cannot use that acquired knowledge?

Evolutionary Psychology is just a book of arguments. We can also add, that if 90% of the world population believed in God then there must be something like it, else how do we explain the common thread of God and religion amongst civilizations developed in geographically diverse locations?
So something is out there, that is beyond our science and has powers that we are still to witness.
I do not mean to ask you to believe completely, but just keep that option open. Because science is not about striking out options, but to keep all options open and learn.
if you do not understand this concept as well, then again your knowledge is waste.
Wake up, Grow up.

Comment from K. H.
Time November 8, 2009 at 12:27 am

Elvula is right. Even naive Muslims may not know the truth of their religion until they are in too deep.

(Oh, and beware Muslim drinkers, carousers, pork eaters, etc., such as Major Hasan. Unlike Christians with Jesus, they are told no way to get clean from sin and get to paradise except to kill - and that is a \"Viking\" add on. Once they get scared, sick, or aware of death, and they know they are in trouble, they start to contemplate murder. That lie ensures they get there. \"Satan is a liar and the father thereof,\" and lies are used to trap people. Remember, lots of the 9/11 terrorists had live-in girlfriends, etc.. A ham sandwich and beer are like Mardi Gras before Lent to them - sin then extreme religious \"sacrament.\") We can not just paint our motives and ways of thinking on them. There are true differences between Christianity and Islam, and those raised in their ethos. You really can\’t speak intelligently about these subjects without knowing their doctrines and having the proof to back it up. They will talk around you switching their stance as necessary. Below are articles on taqiyah, tauriyah, and kithman - which can be spelled many ways. Look up \"ummah\" and \"calipha\" also to know the motive of the true followers of Muhammad. Sorry about the length, but I never use my own words to discuss Islam. I don\’t want to be \"outwitted.\"

Comment from Elvula
Time November 7, 2009 at 4:07 pm

There are no moderate muslims. Only jihadis and apostates.

From http://www.answering-islam.org.....ex.htm#ch1

KITHMAN
KITHMAN, is the command for Shi\’a Muslims to conceal their religious beliefs from non-Shia\’s. Kithman is a special variety of Lying .
This practice, along with the practice of TAQIYYA, were, and are many places today, a method of self-preservation for the Shi\’a community. Historically, the Shiites have been in the minority and have been persecuted by Sunni Muslims who considered them heretics.
Traditions from the sixth Shia Imam firmly established this practice:
Imam Jafar Sadiq (R) said:
\"One, who exposes something from our religion is like one who intentionally kills us.\" (Ft. #1 Usool al Kafi, p.88)
\"You belong to a religion that whosoever conceals it, Allah will honour him and whosoever reveals it, Allah will disgrace him.\" (Ft. #2, Ibid, p.522).

Part 1: The Gist Of The Matter

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CHAPTER I: TO TELL THE TRUTH
Acknowledging ‘Outwittings’
The topic of ‘outwittings’ is unknown to very few in Islam, perhaps only the very young. It is widely acknowledged among those in Islam that this is the type of thing going on in ‘debates’ by men like Ahmad Deedat and when the issue of its use is raised, it brings knowing smiles. It is not a slur to say someone is using such, it is accepted as part of Islam.
One purpose of raising this topic is so that it will be understood that the present writer recognises the existence of such behaviour and has found it used on him in many conversations.
Another purpose is so that the reader will understand that such behaviour is not a teaching from Jesus, and thus know that, as one who seeks to follow Jesus’ teachings, the present writer will not be using ‘outwittings’ in this work.

Well-known In Islam’s History And Sunnah
As we examine this topic we note that a recent Sunni publication has criticised the Shi’a community for their use of, amongst other things, ‘Taqiyya’ (not manifesting the faith openly). It states:
\"Contrary to the universal and basic teachings of all religions, Shiaism teaches its followers to conceal their faith and hide their beliefs. Two of their basic beliefs known as ‘Kithman’ and ‘Taqiyya’ are primarily designed to achieve just such a purpose. The belief in ‘Kithman’ commands the Shias to conceal their religion from the non-Shias. The following two Hadith from the sixth Shia Imam clearly elaborate this point:
Imam Jafar Sadiq (R) said: \"One, who exposes something from our religion is like one who intentionally kills us.\" {Ft. #1 Usool al Kafi, p.88}
Imam Jafar Sadiq (R) said: \"You belong to a religion that whosoever conceals it, Allah will honour him and whosoever reveals it, Allah will disgrace him.\" {Ft. #2, Ibid, p.522}
Furthermore the belief in ‘Taqiyya’ commits the Shias to put up a hypocritical show and to act in such a way that the non-Shias may never be exposed to the real Shiaism. It even allows them to tell a lie if their intention is to hide their religion from the non-Shias. The following Shia Ahadis testify clearly to this effect:
Imam Jafar Sadi (R) said: \"Associate your opponents only outwardly and oppose them inwardly.\" {Ft. #1, Usool al Kafi, p.244}
Zararah narrates that I asked a certain question to Imam Baqar (R). He gave me its answer. Another person then asked the same question and the Imam gave him a different answer. Later a third person asked the same question, but the Imam’s answer this time was different from the previous
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two answers. I then asked him: \"O, the son of the Messenger (S)! The two persons who just came here to ask you questions were from Iraq and were Shias, yet you gave them contradictory answers\". The Imam then answered: \"O Zararah! This is good for me as well as for you and this will help us survive and prosper\". {Ft. #2 Ibid, p.37) .\"
The Shia beliefs towards the Qur’an is a classical manifestation of their doctrines of ‘Kithman’ and ‘Taqiyya’. If one asks a Shia about his beliefs towards the existing Qur’an he says that he believes in its reliability and authenticity. On the other hand, if one looks at the source books of Shia religion, they state that numerous alterations and deletions have been made in the Qur’an. It is a strange paradox that the Shia derive their basic beliefs from books that refute the authenticity of the Qur’an, yet they claim to believe in the authenticity of the Qur’an. A non-Shia is thus forced to conclude that what the Shia say about the authenticity of the Qur’an is simply a manifestation of their practice of ‘Kithman’ and ‘Taqayya’, and that they actually do not believe in the authenticity of the existing Qur’an.\" (The Sunni And Shia Perspectives of THE HOLY QUR’AN, by Dr. Ahmad Abdullah Salamah, p.1, 2; emphasis added)
While this appears to be a ‘Shi’ah only’ affair in fact one often finds in conversations with the Sunnis the same type of tactics of ‘hiding the faith’. This is considered ‘part of the game’, or to some, ‘part of striving in the way of Allah’ (jihad).
The following Hadith, as well as well-known examples from Islam’s history show clearly the accepted teachings for the Sunnis:
\"FORBIDDANCE OF TELLING A LIE AND THE CASES IN
WHICH TELLING OF LIE IS PERMISSIBLE
(6303) Humaid b. `Abd al-Rahman b. `Auf reported that his mother Umm Kilthum… as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).\" (Note: all words are as they appear in the text; Sahih Muslim, p.1374, #6303).
Perhaps the best example is the ‘outwitting’ of Ali by the opposing leadership at ‘the Battle of Siffien’. At ‘the Battle of Siffien’ those who opposed Ali began to lose and so devised a method to gain time. They held their Qur’ans (said by some to be 500) up on the tips of their spears and cried out that the Qur’an should be the decider of the dispute. It was impossible for Ali to oppose this since many of his own soldiers agreed with this proposal.
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Both sides chose a man to represent them at the bargaining table some months later. These two came to the agreement that they would appear before the people and each would tell how his leader had relinquished his claim to the caliphate, and that there would be another chosen. After Abu Musa, Ali’s representative, had stood up and declared the resignation of Ali from the caliphate, the representative of Mu’awiya, Amr ibn As, stood up and thanked him and declared that Mu’awiya would remain as the caliph! What is more amazing is that everyone is said to have accepted it, and only small altercations ensued! Ali lost his place as ruler because he was ‘outwitted’!
Yet, this does not surprise anyone in Islam for it is also noted in Sahih Muslim (#2328):
\"`Ali said: Whenever I narrate to you anything from the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) believe it to be absolutely true as falling from the sky is dearer to me than that of attributing anything to him (the Holy Prophet) which he never said. When I talk to you of anything which is between me and you (there might creep some error in it) for battle is an outwitting.\" (Vol. 2, p. 523f).
The commentator tells us:
\"What this means is that the same standard which they observed in transmitting the words of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) cannot be observed in worldly affairs among people. Although the Companions of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) were extremely pious and God-fearing people and Allah was fully please with them, yet they were not completely immune from error. For the elucidation of this point Hadrat Ali said that in the battlefield one could not observe the highest standard of truth as a Muslim has been exhorted to do in matters of religion. For example in the battlefield one has to hide facts and outwit the enemy.\" (Vol. 2, ft. #1446)
In fact, it is recorded that this was not a matter to be taken lightly, for when `Ali fought the Khwarij, when he made a claim that Muhammad had told him a certain individual would be found among the dead, it says he was made to swear 3 times he was telling the truth and not making an ‘outwitting’:
\"There stood there before him `Abida Salamani who said: Commander of the Believers, by Allah, besides Whom there is no god but He, (tell me) whether you heard this hadith from the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He said: yes, by Allah, besides Whom there is no god but He. He asked him to take an oath thrice and he took the oath.\" (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, #2333, p. 515f; the words are as they appear in the text)
Again the commentator says:
\"The second point about this oath is that it was taken in order to remove the misgiving which might have taken hold of the mind of the people by the
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narration of the words of ‘Ali: \"Battle is an outwitting.\" Hadrat ‘Ali took an oath in order to make it clear that this narration from the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) about the Khwarij is not a piece of outwitting but a genuine statement of fact as told by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him).\" (Vol. 2, ft. #1452)
Another type of ‘outwitting’ concerns the use of ‘tauriya’.
Introducing this, we note first the text of Sahih Muslim (#378) where words are attributed to Ibrahim:
\"Ibrahim would say to them: Verily my Lord is today angry as He has never been angry before and he would never be angry afterwards, and (Ibrahim) would mention his lies…\"
Despite the portrayal of Ibrahim saying that the Deity is angry as He will never be angry again over his lies, the commentator relates the opposite:
\"These were not the type of lies which are counted as serious sin in religion. These may be called tauriya or double-entendre which means using a word, an expression or a phrase, which has an obvious meaning and intending thereby another meaning to which it applies, but which is contrary to the obvious one.\" (Vol. 1, ft. 402, English version)
The conflict is obvious.
An example which is often used in modern times is to say that Christians have different ‘versions’ of the Bible - and imply by this that Christians are always ‘creating new Bibles with new messages’. This is done despite knowing that the word ‘version’ is merely a reference to a translation - something not in its original language.
But, the most distinctive example of tauriya from Islam’s history is the story of the Negus who was compelled by his administrators (Christians) to give an account of what he believed in case he had forsaken their religion. He placed a statement of Islamic faith about Jesus in his breast pocket, and ‘outwitted’ them by pretending he was in agreement with their beliefs about Jesus!
We note all this in what ibn Ishaq (died 151 AH), the author of Islam’s earliest biography on Muhammad wrote:
\"…the Abyssinians assembled and said to the Negus, ‘You have left your religion’ and they revolted against him…Then he (the Negus) took paper and wrote, ‘he testifies that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is His slave and apostle; and he testifies that Jesus, Son of Mary, is His slave, His apostle…’ Then he put it in his gown near his right shoulder and went out to the Abyssinians. …He said, ‘O people, have I not the best claim among you?’ ‘Certainly’ they said. ‘And what do you think of my life among you?’ ‘Excellent.’ ‘Then what is your trouble?’ ‘You have forsaken our religion and assent that Jesus is a slave!’ ‘Then what do you say about Jesus?’ ‘We say that he is the Son of God.’ The Negus put his hand over his gown (signifying)
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‘He testifies that Jesus the Son of Mary was no more than \"this\".’ By this he meant what he had written, but they were content and went away…\" (Sira of ibn Ishaq, #223; emphasis added)!
The followers of Islam know all these characters and events as they are part of their history and there is nothing startling in any of it to them.

‘Outwittings’ on The Present Topic
Many ‘outwittings’ have been encountered by the present writer with regard to the topic of examining the Arabic texts of Qur’ans. A typical example of an ‘outwitting’ is for someone to say that you can’t really tell if there are differences in the Arabic text IF you don’t know Arabic. This is an ‘outwitting’ since anyone can tell when words or letters are missing from one text but present in another - even if it is in Chinese. As to our response to those who maintain one must know ‘Quranic Arabic’, the Islamic scholars we are citing know all about this.
With respect to the present writing, since we are examining the comments of ancient (classical) and modern Islamic scholars on the differences in the Arabic texts, we will rely upon their expertise to convince the reader. They know well the differences between one ‘Qur’anic Arabic’ text and another!
The most recent ‘outwitting’ used by an Algerian man was, \"That’s not the true Arabic, that’s one of the scripts. Show me a text from Saudi Arabia.\"!
The same afternoon a Hizb ut-Tahrir man was shown the same Arabic text and said, \"That’s not ‘Qur’an’. Only what was contained in the early form is ‘Qur’an’. The original didn’t have all these things [meaning the vocalisation] on it! That’s a translation.\"
The followers of Islam will laugh at these, but both men were being shown the types of things you are about to see in the Arabic texts of the Qur’ans and didn’t know how else to deal with them.
It will also become obvious that the comments given to the present writer by the Islamic Foundation U.K., that people are simply getting ‘confused by different scripts of Arabic’, is simply another ‘outwitting’. Of course, it is a deliberate attempt to misdirect people from the fact that the source of the observations is the top Islamic scholars! Do you think they are ‘confused’ because certain letters are written in slightly different ways in different regions of the Islamic world?
The present writer also recognises that there are slight differences in which the letters are written in the various Qur’ans in print. But, should this confuse anyone? Consider, for example that the letter ‘e’ in English can be
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‘printed’ (e, E), or, ‘written’ ( e, Es ). The appearance of the written form of the letters can thus be different since there are different ways to write the letters so that they appear fancier, or decorative. No-one questions that they are still a representation of the same letters. Rather through long years of usage they have come to be recognised by everyone as ‘the English language in different scripts’
It becomes obvious that the claims concerning the Qur\’an are just other ‘outwittings’. Yet people will try every means to confuse others. The real question is \"Why?\" What is hidden behind such actions?
As we proceed we acknowledge that some might not ‘know’ the Arabic language. However, rather than being discouraged from examining the facts as presented by the Islamic scholars, be encouraged to start learning a little bit of Arabic.

Not For Christians
No matter what you have encountered from those who claim to represent Jesus, for true Christians all this is completely contrary to what Jesus taught:
\"Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’ and your ‘No’ be ‘No’ anything else comes from the evil one\" (Injil Matthew 5:37)
And again of the devil (Shaitan) Jesus said:
\"He is a liar and the father of lies\" (Injil John 8:44);
Even the man so despised by many in Islam, the apostle Paul, said:
\"Do not lie to each other\" (Letter to the Colossians 3:9) .
For those who accept Jesus’ teachings, we are clearly taught that to lie is abhorrent in God’s sight. You will find no such thing in this book.
As we look now at the evidence, we commend to you the words of one Shi’ah scholar:
\"The seekers after salvation have always made untiring efforts to enquire into the matter to discover the right course, the path of salvation. And indeed it is necessary for every man to take reason for his guide and try his best in this matter and never despair of attaining the truth. But this can only be possible when he has a bird’s eye view of the radical differences before him and discarding all bias and prejudices, examines the points at issue with a thoughtful mind, always praying to God to lead him to the right path.\" (A Probe Into The History Of Hadith, Al-Askari; emphasis added)
While what we will examine encompasses much more than the mere Hadith or Sirah, the same principle applies.
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LYING
see also DECEPTION.
The morality of lying is one of the most confusing aspects of Islamic thought and, as a result, creates the impression that whether a person is truthful, or deceitful, depends entirely on the ethics of the situation.
At first glance, Islam appears to place great importance on the truth:
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is). (YA, al-Baqarah 2:42)
There are TWO categories of lies which are not tolerated in Islam:
1. A lie against Allah.
Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against Allah, or saith, \"I have received inspiration,\" when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, \"I can reveal the like of what Allah hath revealed\"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying), \"Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against Allah, and scornfully to reject of His signs!\" Sura 6:93
2. A Lie against Muhammad
Narrated Al-Mughira: I heard the Prophet saying, \"Ascribing false things to me is not like ascribing false things to anyone else. Whosoever tells a lie against me intentionally then surely let him occupy his seat in Hell-Fire.\" … (Sahih al-Bukhari 2.378, cf. 1.106-108)
Lying to, or about, fellow Muslims is also a sin according to the Traditions.
Cases in which lying IS permitted
One of the most interesting moral dilemmas for Islam are the cases in which lying is permitted
The Traditions tell us that there are three instances where deception can be used:
Humaid b. \’Abd al-Rahman b. \’Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of \’Uqba b. Abu Mu\’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah\’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah\’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them). (Sahih Muslim, Hadith number 6303-05; see also Sahih al-Bukhari 3.857)
More information is provided by William Muir\’s \"Life of Mahomet\", Volume I, footnote 88:
The common Moslem belief is that it is allowable to tell a falsehood on four occasions:
1st, to save one\’s life;
2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation;
3rd, to persuade a woman;
4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition.
To save one\’s life
The first is borne out by Mahomet\’s express sanction. Ammar ibn Yasir was sorely persecuted by the pagans of Mecca, and denied the faith for his deliverance. The Prophet approved of his conduct: - \"If they do this again, then repeat the same recantation to them again.\" Katib al Wackidi; p. 227 ½. Another tradition preserved in the family of Yasir, is as follows: - \"The idolators seized Ammar, and they let him not go until he had abused Mahomet and spoken well of their gods. He then repaired to the Prophet, who asked of him what had happened.\" - \"Evil, oh Prophet of the Lord! I was not let go until I had abused thee, and spoken well of their gods.\" - \"But how,\" replied Mahomet, \"dost thou find thine own heart?\" - \"Secure and steadfast in the faith.\" - \"Then,\" said Mahomet, \"if they repeat the same, do thou too repeat the same.\" Ibid. Mahomet also said that Ammar\’s lie was better than Abu Jahl\’s truth.
To effect a peace or reconciliation
The second is directly sanctioned by the following tradition:- \"That person is not a liar who makes peace between two people, and speaks good words to do away their quarrel, although they should be lies. Mishcat, vol ii. p.427.
To persuade a woman
As to the third, we have a melancholy instance that Mahomet did not think it wrong to make false promises to his wives, in the matter of Mary his Egyptian maid.
[This article provides more information on this incident.]
On the occasion of a journey or expedition
And regarding the fourth, it was his constant habit in projecting expeditions (excepting only that to Tabuk) to conceal his intentions, and to give out that he was about to proceed in another direction from the true one. Hishami, p. 392; Katib al Wackidi, p. 133 ½.
What was Muhammad\’s attitude towards lying?
Muhammad treated truth and deception according his own style of situational ethics. Muhammad condoned, and actually permitted, lying to further his goals:
For example,
Narrated Jabir bin \’Abdullah:
Allah\’s Apostle said, \"Who is willing to kill Ka\’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?\" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, \"O Allah\’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?\" The Prophet said, \"Yes,\" Muhammad bin Maslama said, \"Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). \"The Prophet said, \"You may say it.\" … (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka\’b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)
Muhammad clearly condoned dishonesty, as well as murder, when it suited his purposes.
Lying today
Imam Abu Hammid Ghazali says: \"Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible.\" (Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745)
Note that Al-Ghazali is one of the most famous and respected Muslim theologians of all time.
Articles which are exploring this topic further:
Understanding Dishonesty and Deceit in Islam
Is Lying a Sin, or Just a Good Strategy?
One of the foundational theological problems for Islam in this matter is the fact that Allah prides himself to be \"the best of deceivers\" (Âl \’Imran 3:54, Al-Anfal 8:30). How then can deception be negative and morally wrong for Muslims when it is a matter of pride for Allah, the god of Islam? For a detailed discussion of this matter, see Allah – The Greatest Deceiver of them All and further articles listed under DECEPTION.
One specific instance of a Muslim missionary using deception to make Islam look more acceptable to a Western audience: Sunni Muslims and Taqiyyah.
One should always be very cautious and careful regarding debating Muslims, as many see no problem to use lies and deception on those occasions. Oftentimes, they do not understand dialogue and debate meetings as an open and honest exchange of convictions, but it is part of the Islamic war against unbelievers in another form, and \"war is deceit\" as Muhammad said. A couple of examples are given in these articles:
Nadir Ahmed: Taqiyya Incarnate
Jesus as God\’s Son in Luke-Acts: Responding to the Distortions of a Muslim Taqiyyist
And deception (a.k.a. the wise choice of words) also features in the high-profile \"dialogue\" initiated by a letter of 138 Muslim scholars to the leaders of all Christian churches, see the detailed analysis The Truth About \"A Common Word\" and other material provided in our overview page on \"A Common Word Between Us And You\".
For further implications and current reality, see e.g.
The Islamic Agenda And Its Blueprints
The Peace of Jerusalem and Yasser Arafat
Islamic Law On Female Circumcision
Civilization of Deception
Two articles giving details regarding a particularly blatant case of Muslim lies for political expediency:
The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem
The Modern Destruction of the Temple Mount (this is criminal!)
One particular deception that resulted in great destruction and the killing of innocent people:
The Muhammad Cartoon Hoax (for further discussion of the cartoon issue, see Is Islam above Criticism?)
Sunni Muslims often criticize the Shi\’a for their use of Taqiyya, or not showing their faith openly. In other words, if a Shi\’a Muslim\’s life is in danger, he may lie as long as he holds true to Ali in his heart.
Related:
Muslim (and other) Hoaxes

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TAQIYYA; TAQIYYAH
Taqiyya, or not showing their faith openly by means of pretense, dissimulation, or concealment, is a special type of LYING which is taught and used by Shi\’a Muslims, cf. Sunni Muslims and Taqiyya. \"Taqiyya\" (or taqiyyah) is related to the terms \"taqwa\’\" and \"taqi\’\" - all have the root meaning of \"guarding\" something, in this case, the Islamic faith.
This practice, along with the practice of Kithman, or concealing their faith from non-Shi\’as, were, and are many places today, a method of self-preservation for the Shi\’a community. Historically, the Shiites have been in the minority and have been persecuted by Sunni Muslims who considered them heretics. Shi\’as are often persecuted today in Pakistan and Afghanistan and Sunni-Shi\’a violence is fairly common. Sunnis would often attempt to force Shi\’as to curse the House of Ali - believing that no devout Shiite could commit such an act. As a result of this persecution, the idea of taqiyya emerged. In other words, if a Shi\’a Muslim\’s life is in danger, he may lie as long as he holds true to Ali in his heart.
Shi\’as believe that the origin of this line of defence comes from the Qur\’an. When Moses returned from the mountain and saw his people worshiping the golden calf, he was understandably angry and asked his brother Aaron why he allowed such a terrible sin to be committed. The Qur\’an tells us
When Moses came back to his people, angry and grieved, he said: \"Evil it is that ye have done in my place in my absence: did ye make haste to bring on the judgment of your Lord?\" He put down the tablets, seized his brother by (the hair of) his head, and dragged him to him. Aaron said: \"Son of my mother! the people did indeed reckon me as naught, and went near to slaying me! Make not the enemies rejoice over my misfortune, nor count thou me amongst the people of sin.\" Moses prayed: \"O my Lord! forgive me and my brother! admit us to Thy mercy! for Thou art the Most Merciful of those who show mercy!\" Sura 7:150-151
This verse is important because, since all Muslims believe that Aaron is a Prophet, none would criticize him for cowardice.
A more specific justification for taqiyya by the Shi\’as is the instance when \’Ammar ibn al-Yasir (one of the companions loyal to \’Ali and considered to be one of the first Shi\’a) was detained and tortured by infidels. He renounced his faith in order to escape and immediately went to Muhammad and repented. \’Umar suggested that he be put to death for apostasy, however, Muhammad said that it was better for him to renounce his faith with his lips (while still believing in his heart) than to be burned to death by the infidels.
This account is surprising considering how much emphasis the Qur\’an places on martyrdom. Today, many Sunnis criticize \’Ammar for his actions and there is a significant difference of philosophy between Sunnis and Shi`a which creates this dilemma. The Sunnis believe that human beings have little or no free will, while the Shi`a believe that humans enjoy a great deal of free will.
To a Sunni, God decides how, and when, one is going to die and what is going to happen to all people - both believers and unbelievers. Therefore, it makes little difference what decisions one makes - everything is in God\’s hands, and it is not right to outwardly deny the faith in order to escape torture or death.
By contrast, the Shi\’a believe that life is a gift from God and like any gift from God, should be preserved and not squandered. Anything that one can do to save one\’s life should be done, even if it is contrary to God\’s laws. In a life-threatening emergency, self-preservation, and the preservation of the faith take precedence over obedience to the shari\’ah - in fact, this kind of preservation in such situations would be considered obedience to the shari\’ah.
Taqiyya is to be practiced only when one fears for one\’s life, the lives of one\’s family members, or for the preservation of the faith. In those situations, according to most Shi`a jurisprudents, taqiyya is required!
Some Shiite Traditions promoting taqiyya are
Imam Jafar Sadi (R) said: \"Associate your opponents only outwardly and oppose them inwardly.\" (Ft. #1, Usool al Kafi, p.244)
Zararah narrates that I asked a certain question to Imam Baqar (R). He gave me its answer. Another person then asked the same question and the Imam gave him a different answer. Later a third person asked the same question, but the Imam\’s answer this time was different from the previous two answers. I then asked him: \"O, the son of the Messenger (S)! The two persons who just came here to ask you questions were from Iraq and were Shias, yet you gave them contradictory answers\". The Imam then answered: \"O Zararah! This is good for me as well as for you and this will help us survive and prosper\". (Ft. #2 Ibid, p.37)
For more information on this topic, please read this article and this linked section of Relation of Shi\’a Theology to the Qur\’an.
Shia Encyclopedia entry: Taqiyya

Sunni Muslims and taqiyya
However, although taqiyya is usually seen as a Shia doctrine only, it is practiced and taught also by Sunni Muslims, cf. the discussion of friendship with unbelievers in the entry on FRIENDS. Here just one quotation from a Sunni website, Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com), advising in regard to making friends with non-Muslims:
\"Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Awliyaa\’ (supporters, helpers) instead of the believers, and whoever does that, will never be helped by Allaah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them\" [Aal \'Imraan 3:28]
This verse explains all the verses quoted above which forbid taking the kaafirs as friends in general terms. What that refers to is in cases where one has a choice, but in cases of fear and TAQIYYAH it is permissible to make friends with them, as much as is essential to protect oneself against their evil. That is subject to the condition that one\’s faith should not be affected by that friendship and the one who is behaves in that manner out of necessity is not one who behaves in that manner out of choice.
Shaykh Muhammad al-Saalih al-\’Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about the ruling on mixing with the kuffaar and treating them kindly hoping that they will become Muslim. He replied:
Undoubtedly the Muslim is obliged to HATE the enemies of Allaah and to disavow them, because this is the way of the Messengers and their followers…
Based on this, it is not permissible for a Muslim to feel any love in his heart towards the enemies of Allaah who are in fact his enemies too…
But if a Muslim treats them with KINDNESS and gentleness in the hope that they will become Muslim and will believe, there is nothing wrong with that, because it comes under the heading of opening their hearts to Islam. But if he despairs of them becoming Muslim, then he should treat them accordingly. This is something that is discussed in detail by the scholars, especially in the book Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah by Ibn al-Qayyim … (Question #59879: What is meant by taking the kuffaar as friends? Ruling on mixing with the kuffaar; bold and capital emphasis ours)
Further discussion: Sunni Muslims and Taqiyyah
See also the entries LYING and DECEPTION.

DECEPTION
One of the most questionable attributes of Allah in the Qur\’an is the claim that he is schemer and deceiver, even \"the best of deceivers\". For a detailed discussion of such repeated statements consult the following articles:
Allah: Truthful Or Deceiver? by Cornelius
Allah – The Greatest Deceiver of them All by Sam Shamoun
See the entries LYING and TAQIYYA for further overviews on various aspects of the matter.

From: http://www.mideastweb.org/ Middle-East- Encyclopedia/taqiyah.htm

Taqiyah
Taqiyya (Arabic: التقية - \’fear, guard against\’) is the religiously sanctioned practice of lying or dissimulation. It is usually attributed to Shia Muslim practice.
Originally it was allowed only in order to save lives in the face of religious persecution.
Twelver Shia cite as a first precedent an incident that supposedly took place during the time of Ammar ibn Yasir, a follower of Muhammad, whose parents were tortured in front of him by the Qurashis renounced Islam & praised the Qurashi God \"Hubal\" to save his parents\’ lives. though they were killed. According to a canonical hadith, the prophet Muhammad later allowed Ammar to repeat such dissimulation if he was placed in danger again. Muhammad said of Ammar, \"Whoso disbelieveth in Allah after his belief-save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is still content with Faith-but whoso findeth ease in disbelief: On them is wrath from Allah. Theirs will be an awful doom\" (Quran, XVI, 106).
Supposedly, the term \"taqiyyah is derived from this verse of the Quran : \"Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them [tattaqu minhum. from the same root tqy as taqiyah], taking (as it were) security [tuqatan. again from the same root as taqiyah]. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying\" (Quran, III, 28). This history would appear to indicate that Taqiyah is especially allowed in the case of dealings with nonbelievers.
Most Sunnis criticize Ammar or question the reliability of the precentent. They give examples of many Muslims who were tortured and murdered based on their belief during the time of Muhammad and thereafter but nonetheless did not renounce their faith. For example, Ammar\’s parents had both been tortured and killed in front of Ammar but did not renounce the faith.
Most Sunnis believe that since a person\’s time of death is decided by God, it is wrong to deny the faith in order to escape torture or death. Shi\’a and some Sunnis believe that life is a gift from God and should be preserved. In a life-threatening emergency, they believe that the preservation of life takes precedence over anything else, in the same way that it is permissible to eat pork during famine. Obviously, this view could not be reconciled with religious views that sanction suicide bombings.
Taqiyah is apparently sanctioned by the Sunni Muslim medieval theologian, Abu Hāmed Mohammad ibn Mohammad al-Ghazzālī of the Shafi school. Its use is clearly much wider than saving of lives. The English translation of Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri\’s handbook, Reliance of the Traveler, quotes Ghazzali as follows:
“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible…, and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. …One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…
Therefore, it is possible to excuse lying on almost any ground that is consistent, for example, with obligatory spread of the Muslim faith.
The practice of Taqiyah raises obvious political issues, in that it appears impossible to trust the word of a Muslim in a treaty if the practice is accepted. It is noteworthy in this regard that authorities consider Taqiyah to be allowed in war and in reconciliation.
The Ayatollah Sistani, a Shi\’a authority in Iraq, is quoted as follows:
1) Taqiyah is done for safety reasons. For example, a person fears that he might be killed or harmed, if he does not observe Taqiyah. In this case, it is obligatory to observe Taqiyah.
2) Reconciliatory Taqiyah. This type of Taqiyah is done when a person intends to reconcile with the other side or when he intends to soften their hearts. This kind of Taqiyah is permissible but not obligatory.
3) Sometimes, Taqiyah may cause a more important obligation to be lost or missed, if so it is forbidden. For example, when I know that silence would cause oppression and infidelity to spread and will make people go astray, in such a situation it is not permissible to be silent and to dissimulate.
4) Sometimes, Taqiyah may lead to the death of an innocent person. If so, it is not permissible. It is therefore haram (forbidden) to kill another person to save your own life.
The \"best\" type of Taqiyah according to some authorities is Tawriah. In Tawriah, a kind of Delphic practice, the speaker makes the \"mark\" believe that they are agreeing with them through ambiguity, whereas in fact they may be saying the opposite. For example, the slogan \"Islam is the religion of peace\" has an ambiguous meaning, since for Muslims, the peace is to be found only through surrender to Allah.
Taqiyah is widely cited by anti-Muslim authorities as a reason for mistrusting treaties and promises made by Muslims. In fairness to Islam, it should be pointed out that deception in war and diplomacy are hardly estranged from Western traditions, and that the \"white lie\" is sanctioned in all cultures in matters relating to love and reconciliation. Some examples of \"Taqiyeh\" from the Judeo-Christian tradition, include Abraham telling the Egyptians that Sarah was his sister rather than his wife, Jacob \"cheating\" Laban by artificially encouraging the birth of sheep of the type that Laban demanded as dowry for his daughter, and Moses asking Pharoah to let the Jewish people leave Egypt temporarily to worship their God in the desert, when the intent was clearly to escape.

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Synonyms and alternate spellings: Taqiyyeh, Taqiya, Taqiyyah. Incorrectly: Takiyeh.

Tawriyah
Tawriyah (Arabic) in Islam is supposedly the best form of Taqiyah. Taqiyah is the religiously sanctioned practice of deception, originally allowed to save one\’s life from religious persecution, and later extended as an obligatory or permitted practice to war and other situations.
Tawriyah is the formulation of Delphic, ambiguous statements that make the person to be deceived believe you are agreeing with them, when in fact you are not.
An example of this as cited by Muslims from Christian sources, occurred when St Paul is brought before a gathering of the Jews, who wanted to condemn him, as related in the book of Acts 23:6‑9:
But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; to the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

And when he had so said, there arose a dissension be­tween . the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisee, confess both.

And there arose a great cry: and the Scribes that were of the Pharisees\’ part arose, and strove„saying, We find no evil in this man.

Likewise, a Muslim fable relates of a believer (follower of Moses) a cousin of Pharoah who was brought to trial by enemies:
Pharaoh was naturally furious, and asked his cousin to explain it. The court was full. \"The believer from the family of Pharaoh\" asked them:

The Believer: Tell me who is your Lord?

Courtiers: Pharaoh.

The Believer: Who is your Creator?

Courtiers: Pharaoh.

The Believer: Who is your sustainer, who guarantees your livelihood and removes your troubles?

Courtiers: Pharaoh.

Then the Believer declared: \"O King! I keep you and all these present as my witness that their Lord is my Lord, and their Sustainer is my Sustainer; and the One , who looks after their lives and livelihood is the One who looks after my life and livelihood. I have no Lord or Creator except their Lord, Creator and Sustainer…\"

Pharaoh\’s anxiety vanished and the backbiters were severely tortured and put to death.(Source: at‑Tabrasi, al‑Ihtijaj,. Beirut, 1403/1983, vol. 2, pp. 3711‑371.)

In both these cases, it is also noteworthy that the lie caused dissension in the ranks of the enemy.

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Synonyms and alternate spellings:

Further Information: http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/2.htm

[ I don\'t find these two examples similar. You will find examples given by Muslims from the Bible to insinuate that we do, or believe, the same things but their interpretation is not like any Christian I have known or heard about. One example is that many Muslims claim Muhammad was the prophesied \"Comforter\" that Jesus said was to come. Context shows that the Comforter was specifically the Holy Spirit. It is specifically written, but they don\'t read it and hope we don\'t either.]

Comment from Jamie
Time November 8, 2009 at 1:22 am

The anger shown in these threads is… appareling. I\’m not saying that this guy ought not to be punished, but I see no reason to jump to conclusions. There are too many questions left unanswered, like “Why?” We can speculate all we want, but we know basically nothing. All the reasons we apply are after the fact, and without the guy talking…

Before you all jump over me, I have a friend laying in a hospital from this shooting right now. I\’m not inclined to be merciful, but any judgment we pass out needs to be for justice, not revenge.

Comment from Glen
Time November 8, 2009 at 5:19 am

Arnoldman, you missed the point entirely. The major made it clear to the army that he was no longer capable of dealing with his situation. The army ignored him, for months. Then he became a mass murderer. The army needs to take some responsibililty. In Vietnam there was a soldier who had murdered a civilian out of hand, simply because he was afraid, and a bit vicious. The army ignored his behavior and simply transferred him to my infantry squad, forcing me to deal with him. He was a threat to everyone around him.

Comment from ellis
Time November 8, 2009 at 6:49 am

for all you haters and bible thumpers out there. remeber that timothy mcvey was one of you, as was the murderer of the abortion doctor

Comment from Exclude Everyone
Time November 8, 2009 at 6:58 am

Reading through these comments is enlightening. I’ve heard the same rants over the years against Muslims, Jews, blacks, foreigners, Heathens, Atheists, Hispanics, women, homosexuals, Liberals, and Catholics. You might get the impression that only a white, Baptist, Republican, native-born male should serve in the US Armed Forces, but when I was in the Navy I met every kind of person there… none of the attributes listed above can qualify or disqualify a person from service, nor can any of those attributes serve as a guideline for deciding who will be heroic or cowardly in their behavior. And yet I’ve heard people claim at times that each the groups above would be the end of the effectiveness of the US military. So far, the US military seems to be doing pretty well.

Saying that all Muslims should be excluded from service makes as much sense as saying that no one of German heritage should have served in WWII.

If you really think that having a religious test for getting into the military would be good, I ask you to define exactly what such a test would look like. It should be very entertaining to read. And if you think I support Muslims, you’d be wrong… I see only slight differences between the varieties of delusion of anyone who thinks that invisible beings are hovering over them…

Comment from Nan
Time November 8, 2009 at 7:23 am

I am appalled by the horror at Ft. Hood.

It’s clear that the problems this man had were very visiblein hind sight - how apparent before is another thing. We all recognize mistakes easier, looking back - but our perspective is skewed by then.

I am also appalled by the hateful comments. So many seem to have forgotten why we have a country in the first place. It appears they want the same kind of country that Hitler envisioned - one full of hate, distrust where anyone not fitting the mold was treated like an animal. My God expects better of me.

Comment from Packrat
Time November 8, 2009 at 7:48 am

My view is that he got a pass because he was Muslim. If a \"bible-thumper\" had made similar comments, he would have been getting counseled or even discharged. This man violated his oath, his honor, and violated his fellow soldier\’s trust.

Comment from Glen
Time November 8, 2009 at 10:04 am

Packrat. Nope. If the body is warm and can stop a bullet, keep it uniform. Been there. Seen that.

Comment from Mamasauras
Time November 8, 2009 at 10:41 am

The Army needs to answer some serious questions about why this guy got poor performance reviews and yet was promoted to Major as well as why he was transferred to Fort Hood with orders to deploy if he already had problems and had requested discharge.

This isn’t so much about a person being Muslim as it is a person displaying instability and the system not taking it seriously.

As the mother of a soldier at Fort Hood I am very concerned about the soldiers that this “psychiatrist” counselled.

Comment from Cheryl
Time November 8, 2009 at 11:32 am

Get a clue. Religion is not the cause - it is the excuse. It is the excuse of those that use it to rationalize their behavior and the excuse others use to blame a perpetrator. If there were no religion, these wack jobs would still walk the earth killing innocent people. They would just have to come up with a different excuse to rationalize their actions.

Muslims have been in this country since before the revolutionary war hand have fought for this country in that war and every war since. I didn’t hear anyone condemning Christians and Christianity for the murders in Florida or the one about a month ago at the nursing home back east or even the Tiller Killer - who did claim religion as his excuse.

We are all guilty for the actions of these people, we don’t say or do something when we see that a person has issues. We vote against taxes that would fund social services that would help folks with problems and we don’t stand against those that would use these people’s weaknesses to their evil ends.

Political cartoons are biased - naturally so - they reflect the views of the artist. Some artists are guilty of narrow minded, extreme views of their own. The thing is - it gets people talking. If you are talking (or arguing) about a particular point of view - at least you aren’t out shooting someone for not agreeing with you.

Comment from MH
Time November 8, 2009 at 12:17 pm

So, it would be nice if Eric Allies actually paid attention to something, rather than deciding that Republican=good/Democrat=Bad. Him and Lester make this site not worth coming to anymore.

Comment from Catherine
Time November 8, 2009 at 1:31 pm

The post about domestic terrorists is right on! We have elected national officials who hate the history of our democratic republic. They worship a new world order and want to fashion an America that reflects European failures. Wait - isn’t that how America happened? To get away from European mistakes?? How did Obama get it so backwards?? How did such an ignorant electorate outnumber us at the polls?? Illegally maybe? (Does the name Acorn ring a bell?) Is the resident of the Oval Office really an American in heart or reality?

Comment from J.
Time November 9, 2009 at 2:19 am

A very large litter of very sick (inbred?), puppies. If one were to follow the dictates of their whining and barking, one would bundle them all up in a very large gunnysack and toss them in the river. Cruelty to (fellow? human?) animals, or pollution?, perhaps, but since they advocate such obvious, and obviously righteous solutions, maybe a simple (preemptive?) eye-for…, do as…, would solve all the world\’s unhandy difficulties…
p.s. Who are THEY again?

Comment from m.s.granado
Time November 9, 2009 at 9:54 am

First, there are several posts that were obviously copied and pasted onto this site. The posts were long, drawn out copies of whatever websites the poster most adhered to. Could we all, regardless of our positions, agree to stick to writing our opinions.? If you cannot write something or would like to direct our attention elsewhere, no problem, just put the website down so we could look at it later.
For those of you who wrote that “islam is a political movement”, this shows an amazing ignorance that is simply based on a rabid bigotry.
As for being “sexually aroused by Columbine”, dave, that was probably you and people like you. Please.
Dangli: What are you blathering on about? The US media, the entire world, is mourning this tragedy and calling it exactly that.
Mike, etal: One word for you: McVeigh. The enemies of America are people like yourselves. McVeigh represented a movement that has already declared war on America and what it stands for–inclusion, tolerance, individual freedoms; he got angry and violent when America did not succumb to right wing neo nazis and was a member of a notoriously and hateful group when he went out and slaughtered innocent Americans. He and so many of your right wing ilk have declared his emnity towards the true principles of America; right wing fanatics have killed our citizens in their jplaces of work, voting booths, homes, medical offices, and day-care centers where children were playing, learning, sleeping. Following your own logic, it is YOU we must fight; it is YOU we must put away; it is YOU who are the enemies of America. It is the evangelo-stalinazi heretical crypto-christians who will turn, who seek to turn this country into a pseudo-christian theocratic dictatorship.
If you are a veteran (Veterans’ Day is Wednesday), especially one who fought in a combat zone, my sincerest gratitude and appreciation. Why is it, however, that some of you want for us toremember that you fought for our Rights but resent it when we actually use those Rights. Remember, these are Rights, not Privileges to be doled out by you at your whim.
Palmer: Spot on! Keep it up.
jrsmac: You have completely personified the entire evangelistic, non-christian movement. Keep it up.
smartalec44 et al: we should be able to accomodate jews, catholics, dissidents, democrats, liberals, flouride users, and others into those camps. Sieg heil!

Comment from smartalec44
Time November 9, 2009 at 3:45 pm

Comment from m.s.granado
Time November 9, 2009 at 9:54 am

If you are a veteran (Veterans’ Day is Wednesday), especially one who fought in a combat zone, my sincerest gratitude and appreciation. Why is it, however, that some of you want for us toremember that you fought for our Rights but resent it when we actually use those Rights. Remember, these are Rights, not Privileges to be doled out by you at your whim.
Palmer: Spot on! Keep it up.
jrsmac: You have completely personified the entire evangelistic, non-christian movement. Keep it up.
smartalec44 et al: we should be able to accomodate jews, catholics, dissidents, democrats, liberals, flouride users, and others into those camps. Sieg heil!

Jews and Catholics aren’t shooting and blowing up American troops or civilians like these Muslim devils.
Let’s bring back the holy wars and the Spanish Inquisition(Only for Muslims and not Jews) and purge the Muslim fidels from the globe.

Have Baxter Labs make a special batch of swine flu vaccination comprised of pig embryos and blood for the Muslim community so that they won’t go to heaven after exploding in their suicide body bombs.

Comment from K. H.
Time November 9, 2009 at 4:50 pm

OK M.S.Granado, Here’s a site.
“:: Islam Channel :: Discover Islam
… to Islam. Intro to Salat. Islamic Calendar. Islamic Vocabulary. Dua’s … Blood money, paid by the guilty as a compensation for killing, wounding, etc. (pl. …
http://www.islamchannel.tv/IslamicVocabulary.aspx - 217k - Cached”
Found from Yahoo search using “Islam vocabulary payment for killing”
It doesn’t show taqiyah, tauriyah, kithman, calipha, and Ummah means only “the Muslim community” even though their motto is “One World-One Ummah-One Channel.” These are legitimate Islamic terms but hard to look up. My point was that this is dangerous. We must KNOW them, not our fantasies of them. I thought about a link but it was too important knowing most wouldn’t go being concerned about viruses, etc.. I knew they could scroll down or the moderator would edit it if it wasn’t relevant. There’s a lot of “stuff” on this and any comments site but engaged folks, like those interested in these cartoons, are the type who can hold our nation together, IF they know what they are dealing with beyond opinions. We need truth and proof to state our positions and truly know Hasan’s and his supporters’ motivations.

Right now, I can’t find the word for “payment for killing,” though the search blerb says it’s in there. It’s been too many years since I learned it to remember the common spelling in transliteration. Perhaps you can help me, MS. Islamic Groups are raising money for the victims families. We think of this like regular Christian charity. It is not. THEY MUST NOT ACCEPT IT! In Islam there is a doctrine of Blood Money. A killer or wounder can get off by paying money. If the family accepts it there is no other punishment. That is one of the reasons our system says the State of Whatever vs. Smith, etc., because no one can be sold by parents, siblings, spouses, others for cash or trade. Society says the crime is the crime and it is against all of us, regardless if anyone loves you or values you enough to not sell you out. Rudy Giuliani may not have known why, but when he refused Saudi Arabia’s money after 9/11, he did a lot more than he realized. They were trying to “outwit” us into accepting their blood money. If those families accept the money, any punishment that Hasan gets will be invalid in the eyes of Muslims.

Comment from m.s.granado
Time November 10, 2009 at 9:34 am

They sure could have used you in Treblinka, Sobibor, and Aushwitz., smartalec. Sieg Heil!! But don’t worry, there are plenty more like you so you won’t be alone.

Comment from Pat
Time November 10, 2009 at 1:32 pm

I have a comment about the supposed violence being depicted in the Virginia cartoon. The one where the soldier (trained to kill his enemy) is on the front lines, searching for Al Queda (radical Muslim Terrorist organization) in order to kill said enemy before the war on terror is brought to our shores.

This is a difficult task to do, considering with the ease in which the 9/11 hijackers proliferated our defenses in order to reach their targets. Now, before I continue, I am not going to say that the government should hand over everything to the military, and make the borders of this country as strong as they should be. That would be the wrong direction to take things. It would isolate us from the rest of the world.

But before I get off of my point, those soldiers are trained to kill, and they should be allowed to do their jobs, when necessary. When doing so allows them to: Protect the U.S. Constitution to it’s fullest extent; to follow the legal orders of the chain of command; to protect and defend the American way of life; to honor and pay respect honorably to his brethren who are with him on the battlefield now, and who have fallen before him.

The soldier depicted in the Virgina cartoon lost 12 of his military brothers in arms. Does anyone here know that part of the oath that a soldier takes is to: “Protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America from all enemies, both foreign and domestic.”

Personally, I don’t see that as an oath that should be taken lightly, but I feel that some of the comments that have been made in opposition to the Virginia cartoon have alleged that the soldier in question has taken his oath lightly, and just wants racial/religious retaliation.

I don’t see it that way. Thank you.

Comment from smartalec44
Time November 10, 2009 at 2:54 pm

Comment from m.s.granado
Time November 10, 2009 at 9:34 am

They sure could have used you in Treblinka, Sobibor, and Aushwitz., smartalec. Sieg Heil!! But don’t worry, there are plenty more like you so you won’t be alone.

I’m not writing about ethnic cleansing of Jews.They are a pain in the ass controlling US media & Federal Reserve but I don’t have to worry about them killing innocent people in the U.S. What they do to defend themselves in the Middle East is their business.

Just like the phrase the only good Indian is a dead Indian,the same can be extended to the Muslims.
The American troops should have bullets dipped in poison dart solution along with bacon drippings.

Comment from Rodney Oakes
Time November 10, 2009 at 9:15 pm

Evan Thomas”, of News Week is a Fool. Did you here his comments about how this tragedy would wak up the conservitives.

Comment from Dave
Time November 12, 2009 at 5:02 pm

Steve Sack - The Star-Tribune (Minnesota) why is it so difficult for pansies like yourself to recognize and properly identify evil when you see it? I guess it’s much easier to attack the “fear and prejudice” straw man.